Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-18-2012, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,623 posts, read 19,080,094 times
Reputation: 21738

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunValleyRoadKing View Post
Food prices are going up because of drought, not the EPA.
There's no drought. That's coming in about 14 months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunValleyRoadKing View Post
An environmental engineer....
You mean like a floor technician (someone who mops floors), or like a sanitation engineer
(someone who scrubs skid-marks out of toilets)?

Engineering...

Mircea
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-18-2012, 06:38 PM
 
Location: In the heights
36,986 posts, read 39,007,716 times
Reputation: 21027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_Muz View Post
The only reason ethanol would make sense is if there were an engine that was built to run on it.

What it amounts to is about as good as adding saw dust to cornflakes.... You can make the saw dust pass your system and feel full, but you will be weak, and tired all the time from lack of energy. Then next make this mix of saw dust and cornflakes cost more for no reason by 10%.

Everything is based on 10% and all of that is loss.

Costs 10% too much gets 10% less MPG, loses 10% power, takes up 10% weight, and 10% storage of the gas tank.

Oh I just can't wait for the 15%.... And non techy people think it does something good because the goobermint put it there...

The one thing it does best is suck water out of thin air....... which contaminates the fuel.
I don't think ethanol is so much the problem as it is what the sum energy output we get from all the energy it takes from creating that ethanol into usable form in the first place. Engines are built for the ethanol mixtures in the sense that it is actually being combusted and converted into motion, but that's after all the energy we spent trying to get the ethanol in the first place. Unless there is some major ridiculous breakthrough that affects corn ethanol production and corn ethanol only, I just don't see this being a very smart bet.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2012, 06:39 PM
 
Location: In the heights
36,986 posts, read 39,007,716 times
Reputation: 21027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
There's no drought. That's coming in about 14 months.



You mean like a floor technician (someone who mops floors), or like a sanitation engineer
(someone who scrubs skid-marks out of toilets)?

Engineering...

Mircea
No.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2012, 06:40 PM
 
Location: In the heights
36,986 posts, read 39,007,716 times
Reputation: 21027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Engines in cars run perfectly well on the 10% ethanol and doesn't hurt them. There are others, like the Ford F-150 I used to have that can run on 85% ethanol fuels, got about the same mileage and cost a lot less. The main difference is the cost of the computer to measure the specific gravity of the fuel to adjust the engines timing for the fuel thats going into it. The metal fuel lines that are used in modern cars aren't hurt by ethanol.

Now, if you have an old boat, like the 1986 I had, then you don't want to run Ethanol fuels in that. But most folks have a car thats 2000 or newer, and those who have older cars can either run the 10% fuel and not worry about it, cause it won't cause them any problems most likely, or can find all gasoline stations that charge about 30% mark up on pure gas.

BTW, congrats on your most informative post
Good and accurate post! However, what about getting that ethanol in the first place?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2012, 06:44 PM
 
420 posts, read 334,453 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Sorry, you're right that was way over the line. It's not conducive to anything and I apologize. I don't think an engineer is restricted to someone who develops an internal combustion engine and along that line I ask you if you actually know any engineers. Civil, environmental, electrical, chemical, etc. are all engineers and many of them likely have to do some mechanical engineering in parts. Meanwhile, there are actual mechanical engineers under the employ of the EPA as there is a lot of monitoring devices that they must create, check, fix, etc. among other things.
Yes, they also design water purification systems, etc. My problem was that you seemed to imply that the EPA should be designing motors that run on ethanol fuel. I believe that job is left to private industry. As many have mentioned, modern motors are capable of running on gasoline/ethanol blends.

From my 2009 owner's manual:

Ethanol is a mixture of 10% ethanol (Grain alcohol) and 90% unleaded gasoline. Gasoline/ethanol blends can be used in your motorcycle if the ethanol content does not exceed 10%.

So, if the ratio is increased to 15/85, I may have a problem. However, I'm sure the engineers at Harley will have no difficulty in designing new motors, nor offering modifications to existing ones.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2012, 06:47 PM
 
420 posts, read 334,453 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
There's no drought. That's coming in about 14 months.
Ummm...are you joking?



Quote:
You mean like a floor technician (someone who mops floors), or like a sanitation engineer
(someone who scrubs skid-marks out of toilets)?

Engineering...

Mircea
Now I know you're joking. If not, Google is your friend.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2012, 06:56 PM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,873,273 times
Reputation: 17863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Electric trimmers. Change out the battery and keep on trimming. Cheaper to buy electricity, a lighter trimmer, and far less maintenace. Same thing with my push mower.

Now, the riding mower, not a battery big enough for that yet
ROFL.... those electric toys might be fine for small yards but it ain't happening if you have a large yard.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2012, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,869 posts, read 24,324,752 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
ROFL.... those electric toys might be fine for small yards but it ain't happening if you have a large yard.
My dad uses them on his 7 acre yard. Thats what the changing batteries is for.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2012, 02:01 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,703,593 times
Reputation: 20028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Running a 10% ethanol rate for the fuel everyone puts into cars keeps gasoline prices down.

Just quit paying farmers not to plant fields.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Why arent you taking into consideration the cost of the subsidies or rising food prices?
This is money taken right out of taxpayers pockets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Like I said, we pay farmers about 2 billion dollars a year not to farm perfectly good farm land.

Let them farm it, save the taxpayer money, and let them sale that corn at profit. Puts more corn out of that 34 million acres, keeps food prices down, and has enough ethanol for keeping gasoline prices down.

Win/Win
memphis hit the nail on the head. we have lots of farm land that is going unfarmed because the government is paying farmers not to farm it. we have other farm land going unfarmed because states are preventing farmers from farming the land due to water restrictions(california is the worst offender). this all needs to stop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_Muz View Post
Well some how the EPA passes quazzi law. Burning things with either no fuel or no air...

passing law for 15% ethanol when no engines are made to burn it, and what we have now eats fuel lines and gaskets.

Why not lets just make 100% and drink the stuff. I know I'ld be happy
flex fuel vehicles have been around since the early 90s. the only changes were a flex fuel sensor added to the system, and a bit of software. and since ethanol has been used in gasoline since the late 80s, vehicles sold since then have the necessary mods to the fuel system to handle the alcohol in the fuel. as memphis indicated, it is only the earlier cars that have issues with ethanol in gasoline, and most of those have already been modified as needed to handle the ethanol. the fact is that ANY internal combustion engine can use alcohol as a fuel, either mixed with gasoline or straight up 100% alcohol.

and if you think ethanol is corrosive and hard on gaskets, try using methanol and nitromethane. they are even tougher on those components. we ran ten percent nitro in our race car, and we used off teh shelf gaskets with NO issues for several seasons of racing. and contrary to popular opinion, we didnt change the gaskets out very often, and even when we did we found NO damage to the gaskets, just normal wear and tear that any car would have.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2012, 03:24 AM
 
Location: north by nw
37 posts, read 63,810 times
Reputation: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Unless there is some major ridiculous breakthrough that affects corn ethanol production and corn ethanol only, I just don't see this being a very smart bet.
Has anyone really wanted to know how these GMO ethanol corn fields are maintained? After all these yrs of artificial growth stimulation, the natural good earth has given way to something almost poisonous smelling and lifeless.(would you really want a closer look?) In order to grow these giant corn yields, liquid manure from penned cows that never see a pasture is directly injected into the ground. No natural cycle of composting to kill pathogens,breaking down the harsh edge of raw animal sewage. Or, in the past piggy slop was tried, but when you try to use that out in the open air,it can smell like sickly human sewage, so for aesthetic reasons that was stopped. Nothing lives or breathes very well in these surroundings, ever see what has happened in Idaho? Whole fields lay gray looking, the soils are used up and dead,the life cycle has left. In between these toxic gray areas organic farmers battle to keep out the toxic runoff, Micheal Pollans book details how these very farmers fear for their families personal safety because of their neighbors using Monsantos artificial growth potions and GMO created plants. Its much more than just about GMO corn for ethanol, have a little guts here people or leave the subject altogether. And before you all blather on, yes I worked in the ag business, long enough to see farms that were struggling with how to stop, but over owing their financial lifeline to "Modern Farming Practices". By the way, ethanol distillation emissions has sickened whole neighborhoods downwind, just ask some of the home owners near St Paul MN. Time to end this farce
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top