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The only reason ethanol would make sense is if there were an engine that was built to run on it.
What it amounts to is about as good as adding saw dust to cornflakes.... You can make the saw dust pass your system and feel full, but you will be weak, and tired all the time from lack of energy. Then next make this mix of saw dust and cornflakes cost more for no reason by 10%.
Everything is based on 10% and all of that is loss.
Costs 10% too much gets 10% less MPG, loses 10% power, takes up 10% weight, and 10% storage of the gas tank.
Oh I just can't wait for the 15%.... And non techy people think it does something good because the goobermint put it there...
The one thing it does best is suck water out of thin air....... which contaminates the fuel.
I don't think ethanol is so much the problem as it is what the sum energy output we get from all the energy it takes from creating that ethanol into usable form in the first place. Engines are built for the ethanol mixtures in the sense that it is actually being combusted and converted into motion, but that's after all the energy we spent trying to get the ethanol in the first place. Unless there is some major ridiculous breakthrough that affects corn ethanol production and corn ethanol only, I just don't see this being a very smart bet.
Engines in cars run perfectly well on the 10% ethanol and doesn't hurt them. There are others, like the Ford F-150 I used to have that can run on 85% ethanol fuels, got about the same mileage and cost a lot less. The main difference is the cost of the computer to measure the specific gravity of the fuel to adjust the engines timing for the fuel thats going into it. The metal fuel lines that are used in modern cars aren't hurt by ethanol.
Now, if you have an old boat, like the 1986 I had, then you don't want to run Ethanol fuels in that. But most folks have a car thats 2000 or newer, and those who have older cars can either run the 10% fuel and not worry about it, cause it won't cause them any problems most likely, or can find all gasoline stations that charge about 30% mark up on pure gas.
BTW, congrats on your most informative post
Good and accurate post! However, what about getting that ethanol in the first place?
Sorry, you're right that was way over the line. It's not conducive to anything and I apologize. I don't think an engineer is restricted to someone who develops an internal combustion engine and along that line I ask you if you actually know any engineers. Civil, environmental, electrical, chemical, etc. are all engineers and many of them likely have to do some mechanical engineering in parts. Meanwhile, there are actual mechanical engineers under the employ of the EPA as there is a lot of monitoring devices that they must create, check, fix, etc. among other things.
Yes, they also design water purification systems, etc. My problem was that you seemed to imply that the EPA should be designing motors that run on ethanol fuel. I believe that job is left to private industry. As many have mentioned, modern motors are capable of running on gasoline/ethanol blends.
From my 2009 owner's manual:
Ethanol is a mixture of 10% ethanol (Grain alcohol) and 90% unleaded gasoline. Gasoline/ethanol blends can be used in your motorcycle if the ethanol content does not exceed 10%.
So, if the ratio is increased to 15/85, I may have a problem. However, I'm sure the engineers at Harley will have no difficulty in designing new motors, nor offering modifications to existing ones.
Electric trimmers. Change out the battery and keep on trimming. Cheaper to buy electricity, a lighter trimmer, and far less maintenace. Same thing with my push mower.
Now, the riding mower, not a battery big enough for that yet
ROFL.... those electric toys might be fine for small yards but it ain't happening if you have a large yard.
Running a 10% ethanol rate for the fuel everyone puts into cars keeps gasoline prices down.
Just quit paying farmers not to plant fields.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest
Why arent you taking into consideration the cost of the subsidies or rising food prices?
This is money taken right out of taxpayers pockets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979
Like I said, we pay farmers about 2 billion dollars a year not to farm perfectly good farm land.
Let them farm it, save the taxpayer money, and let them sale that corn at profit. Puts more corn out of that 34 million acres, keeps food prices down, and has enough ethanol for keeping gasoline prices down.
Win/Win
memphis hit the nail on the head. we have lots of farm land that is going unfarmed because the government is paying farmers not to farm it. we have other farm land going unfarmed because states are preventing farmers from farming the land due to water restrictions(california is the worst offender). this all needs to stop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_Muz
Well some how the EPA passes quazzi law. Burning things with either no fuel or no air...
passing law for 15% ethanol when no engines are made to burn it, and what we have now eats fuel lines and gaskets.
Why not lets just make 100% and drink the stuff. I know I'ld be happy
flex fuel vehicles have been around since the early 90s. the only changes were a flex fuel sensor added to the system, and a bit of software. and since ethanol has been used in gasoline since the late 80s, vehicles sold since then have the necessary mods to the fuel system to handle the alcohol in the fuel. as memphis indicated, it is only the earlier cars that have issues with ethanol in gasoline, and most of those have already been modified as needed to handle the ethanol. the fact is that ANY internal combustion engine can use alcohol as a fuel, either mixed with gasoline or straight up 100% alcohol.
and if you think ethanol is corrosive and hard on gaskets, try using methanol and nitromethane. they are even tougher on those components. we ran ten percent nitro in our race car, and we used off teh shelf gaskets with NO issues for several seasons of racing. and contrary to popular opinion, we didnt change the gaskets out very often, and even when we did we found NO damage to the gaskets, just normal wear and tear that any car would have.
Unless there is some major ridiculous breakthrough that affects corn ethanol production and corn ethanol only, I just don't see this being a very smart bet.
Has anyone really wanted to know how these GMO ethanol corn fields are maintained? After all these yrs of artificial growth stimulation, the natural good earth has given way to something almost poisonous smelling and lifeless.(would you really want a closer look?) In order to grow these giant corn yields, liquid manure from penned cows that never see a pasture is directly injected into the ground. No natural cycle of composting to kill pathogens,breaking down the harsh edge of raw animal sewage. Or, in the past piggy slop was tried, but when you try to use that out in the open air,it can smell like sickly human sewage, so for aesthetic reasons that was stopped. Nothing lives or breathes very well in these surroundings, ever see what has happened in Idaho? Whole fields lay gray looking, the soils are used up and dead,the life cycle has left. In between these toxic gray areas organic farmers battle to keep out the toxic runoff, Micheal Pollans book details how these very farmers fear for their families personal safety because of their neighbors using Monsantos artificial growth potions and GMO created plants. Its much more than just about GMO corn for ethanol, have a little guts here people or leave the subject altogether. And before you all blather on, yes I worked in the ag business, long enough to see farms that were struggling with how to stop, but over owing their financial lifeline to "Modern Farming Practices". By the way, ethanol distillation emissions has sickened whole neighborhoods downwind, just ask some of the home owners near St Paul MN. Time to end this farce
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