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Old 11-18-2012, 11:09 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,745,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccullough View Post
Here's an important fact in this debate: there is no such thing as a death tax. It's one more Republican lie.
granted it is properly called the estate tax, however it only applies after the person who owns the estate DIES, thus is it also known as the death tax.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:18 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,388,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Think4Yourself View Post
It is absolutely provably NOT double taxation. It's a transfer of money from one person to another. The new person has never paid taxes on it and he's the one who has to pay the tax. It's exactly the same reason by taxing dividends is NOT double taxation. Do you remember that corporations are people? So the corporation/person pays a tax when it/he gets the money but the shareholder is a totally different person so when he gets money he owes taxes on it.

The claim that double taxation exists is just an out right lie. Now, if you want to revoke corporate personhood then a decent case could be made that it is double taxation but as long as "corporations are people, my friend" then it is a transfer of money from one person to another person in a legal sense.

An estate tax is usually (but not always) double taxation, but an inheritance tax is not.

A multigenerational estate is able to escape capital gains taxes when the estate is not sufficiently large to owe estate tax. The capital gain portion of the inheritance was never taxed because the inheritor(s) enjoyed a "basis step-up" on small estates they inherited.

Taxes can get out of control when estates are large enough to tax, but proper estate planning can mitigate taxes.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:24 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,388,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
In the words of my Grandfather "I'll leave my children enough to do something with their lives, but not enough to do nothing."

Now there is a great father.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:38 AM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,221 posts, read 12,293,637 times
Reputation: 3554
Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
Death taxes depress the value of a family. What I earn is not mine. It is my kids and their kids. I do not work this hard just to have some slick politician scum demand half at my death. Nor do I work this hard to have some freeloader demand I pay the tax so they can have <insert government welfare gimme here>.

I work for MY family, not you or the government.
I think that is the point, YOU WORKED to get what you have. Who to say that your children will do the same? How whould you feel if you worked all of your life to obtain a thriving business just to have an irresponsible child to sell it all away and blow the money? If they are taxed it might force them to keep whatever business and recoup what they lost in taxes and turn it into a profit for your grandchildren
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:16 AM
 
Location: S.E. US
13,163 posts, read 1,660,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
I think estates are the wrong thing to tax; inheritances should be taxed, at the recipients individual (usually lower) tax rate, deferred without interest (or maybe at some nominal rate like CPI) until cash is realized.

Nobody would have to sell anything to (be able to) pay this tax - you don't pay until you sell or otherwise convert to cash.
I don't believe there should be an inheritance tax either.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Hinckley Ohio
6,721 posts, read 5,192,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
I don't believe there should be an inheritance tax either.
Why not, an inheritance is INCOME to the heirs, and it is a tax on the extremely wealthy. Most inheritances are not even taxed.

Here's one of the reason large inheritances are taxed. When someone's parents pass alone their $10,000,000 home to their children there is an untaxed capital gain to consider. When those parents bought that $10,000,000 home 40, 50 years ago, it didn't cost them $10,000,000, it cost them $500,000 or a million. By holding that home thru their death those parent avoided a capital gains tax they would have paid. The inheritance tax is, in part, a tax on unrealized capital gains.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,431,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Less than 2% of Americans are subject to inheritance tax.
not so


while many dont get hit with the federal side....many do get hit by their prospective states

an example:

NEW YORK estate tax (old level) any thing over 100,000(federal was 600k at the time) was taxed at 55%

so if your parent bought a house in 1965 for 20k (THE GOING RATE) and in 2005 it was worth 450k (AGAIN THE GOING RATE) YOU would be taxed 55% of 350k ....do you think the average working class kid who just lost his parents has 192k just laying around....nope they will have to DUMP thier family home (and probably their residence) in a SHORT SALE and lose even more


its happened
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Hinckley Ohio
6,721 posts, read 5,192,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
An estate tax is usually (but not always) double taxation, but an inheritance tax is not.

A multigenerational estate is able to escape capital gains taxes when the estate is not sufficiently large to owe estate tax. The capital gain portion of the inheritance was never taxed because the inheritor(s) enjoyed a "basis step-up" on small estates they inherited.

Taxes can get out of control when estates are large enough to tax, but proper estate planning can mitigate taxes.
An estate tax is not double taxation, ever. If the deceased person paid all the taxes they owed over their life time, they're not the one's paying the taxes, it is the heirs, that have received INCOME from the estate that are paying the tax.

This is the stupidiest fight I've ever seen. Work class drone fighting to do away with a tax on the top 1% that they themselves will NEVER pay and which has zero affect on their lives. Ppl, we have a $16 trillion debt, cutting spending DOESN'T pay off that debt.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Where they serve real ale.
7,242 posts, read 7,892,050 times
Reputation: 3497
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
An estate tax is usually (but not always) double taxation, but an inheritance tax is not.
The estate tax IS an inheritance tax. The person who earns it does not pay any taxes because they're dead. It's the beneficiaries who pay it and they have NOT paid any taxes on that money.

This is why Republicans are liars when they call it "the death tax" because the dead person doesn't pay a penny on anything. It's the decedents who are paying taxes on the unearned income they're getting from the person who HAD earned it.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,431,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzards27 View Post
BS, your example has been myth busted before, why do you keep dredging up these lies. Someone inheriting a $450,000 with a $20,000 cost basis (fyi, a lot of other expenses over their lifetime would be added to the cost basis). There is an exemption on what is taxed. If I remember right in your bogus example nothing would be taxed but let's say part of it was. Only a small part would be taxed at a lower rate and the OVERALL EFFECTIVE TAX RATE would be in the single digits, maybe 2% or 3%. A few hundred dollars, not the 55% of $350,000 you claim.

STOP SPREADING LIES so we can have honest fact based discussions. Problem is, you know better. Shame on you.
sorry, but it happened

its a true FAMILY story

too bad you didnt READ

I said OLD LEVEL

FACT up until 2003 NY estate tax was 55% of everything over 100k ( the federal level was 600k in 2000, 675k in 2001, 1 mil in 2002)

it was not bogus..it was fact

you didnt debunk a thing

FACT my parents and my uncle bought homes on long island in 1964 for 18-20k....fact in 1999 my uncle passed, and my cousin got hit with the estate tax...my parent sold their house in 2006...for 500k




here is the 2011 tax rates directly from FORM ET706

Table A — Unified rate schedule
If the taxable amount is:
........ over................. but not over.................. the tax is:
..........0........................10,000......... ...............18%
......10,000....................20,000............ .1,800 plus 20%
......20,000....................40,000............ .3,800 plus 22%
......40,000...................60,000
......60,000.................
......80,000................
......100,000..............
......150,000..............
......250,000..............500,000.........70,800 plus 34% of amount over 250,000
......500,000.............750,000.........155,800 plus 37% of amount over 500,000
......750,000............
.....1,000,000..........
.....1,250,000..........
.....1,500,000..........
.....2,000,000.........
.....2,500,000.........
.....3,000,000.............10,000,000......1,290,8 00 plus 55% of amount over 3,000,000
....10,000,000............17,184,000.......5,140,8 00 plus 60% of amount over 10,000,000
....17,184,000

too tired to type the whole chart

but notice:
......250,000..............500,000.........70,800 plus 34% of amount over 250,000
......500,000.............750,000.........155,800 plus 37% of amount over 500,000
so an estate of 450k would get hit for 70,800 plus 34% of 200k (68k)....hmm even TODAY an estate of 450k will het taxed at 140k




too bad. you just want to blast anyone who disagrees with you...too bad you violate the TOS on nearly a daily basis


just because YOU dont agree with something doesnt make it a lie

you have been reported
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