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I also do not celebrate Christmas, as an atheist. However, I do celebrate Winter Solstice since I live in Alaska. Winter Solstice marks the day we begin gaining daylight instead of losing it, and I consider that worthy of celebration.
I disagree with you about cities not celebrating winter holidays. Most northern States have some sort of secular winter festival. In Alaska it is called "Fur Rondy," which occurs during the entire month of February. Fur Rondy began when fur traders got together during the winter to buy furs from trappers. The end of the Fur Rondy celebration in Anchorage also marks the beginning of the Iditarod race.
When winters are as long and as dark as they are in Alaska, it helps to break it up with some celebrations. Cabin Fever (a.k.a. SAD) can be a killer.
I am also not offended when someone wishes me a Merry Christmas, or Happy Holidays, or Happy Hanukkah, or Happy Yule, because in the end they are wishing me to be "merry" or "happy" and how could anyone take offense to that?
I also agree with the position of the Santa Monica government. It would appear to me that they are attempting to accommodate everyone, Christians, atheists, Jews, etc. As the Supreme Court has said, either all religions (or non-religions) should be accommodated equally, or not at all. If everyone with different beliefs cannot share equally, then no one should be allowed to have one of those 21 spots in Santa Monica.
It's interesting that winter solstius has been known of for a very very long time. One of the painted caves has long been a mystery, since aside from knowing that it was painted in neolithic times, why has been speculation. But while its usually been looked at as art, using equiptment which would uncover lost areas of the painting, a team investigated it as something more specific, as a star map. They found areas had been painted and the paintings removed, and there are several specific openings where light shines into back areas, but only at specific times. They found what may be a rather exact map of the stars as some neolithic wonderer watched them. But what pattern?
They observed it among other times during the summer and winter solstice. Like Stonehenge, it has symbols only lit then. Its unusual for us to think that neolithic man would have watched the sky so closely, and marked it in a cave, and made a space to show the turn of the sky so early on, but then we are often surprised by the inate capabilities.
Of all possible things for them to mark, it was winter solstice which predominated. Its entirely possible long before we lived in even a village, that it was held as a special day.
I have no doubt that many places with so much darkness in winter would celebrate the turn of the year.
As for Santa Monica, it would NOT have been a problem if the non christan displays had not been vandalized. The city isn't going to play policeman. Either play fair and together or don't play at all.
What holiday has a Christian ever created? They stole Yule from the pagans and turned it into Christmas - that's not creating one. Same goes for Easter.
And to all those talking about the atheists shouldn't be forcing their non-beliefs on everyone else...ok, I counter with the Christians shouldn't be forcing their beliefs onto everyone else, either.
I'm atheist to the marrow. I like Christmas. I think it's a great holiday, EXEMPTING any religious overtones some like to add to it.
When I was a kid I went to a church owned school, episcopalian. We went to church and chappel in the morning. But I don't remember really ever associating the standard cultural stuff of christmas with that. I loved it but it wasn't about the birth story but presents and family and good fellowship among people. Nobody at my school ever claimed the tree or santa or the rest was about religion. There were kids there who were not episcopalian or even associated with a church. The school had a large enrolement due to its excellent phonics program while the LAUSD used look and see and turned out reams of kids who couldn't read.
The cultural stuff they celebrated for everyone. The church stuff was your choice.
Call it what you like and celebrate what you want. Assuming the work on my living room is DONE by then (crossing fingers) I'd like to decorate for Yule. Not because I have to but because its nice to do that. In Japan it is celebrated, but there is no religious conitation at all. They do the tree as well, but its a cultural family gathering.
No matter what you believe, or don't, family is important and good will toward others is too.
It's interesting that winter solstius has been known of for a very very long time. One of the painted caves has long been a mystery, since aside from knowing that it was painted in neolithic times, why has been speculation. But while its usually been looked at as art, using equiptment which would uncover lost areas of the painting, a team investigated it as something more specific, as a star map. They found areas had been painted and the paintings removed, and there are several specific openings where light shines into back areas, but only at specific times. They found what may be a rather exact map of the stars as some neolithic wonderer watched them. But what pattern?
They observed it among other times during the summer and winter solstice. Like Stonehenge, it has symbols only lit then. Its unusual for us to think that neolithic man would have watched the sky so closely, and marked it in a cave, and made a space to show the turn of the sky so early on, but then we are often surprised by the inate capabilities.
Of all possible things for them to mark, it was winter solstice which predominated. Its entirely possible long before we lived in even a village, that it was held as a special day.
I have no doubt that many places with so much darkness in winter would celebrate the turn of the year.
As for Santa Monica, it would NOT have been a problem if the non christan displays had not been vandalized. The city isn't going to play policeman. Either play fair and together or don't play at all.
I realize that winter is not even half over by the time Winter Solstice comes around, but for six months we have been losing around five minutes per day. When Winter Solstice finally arrives it gives some (including myself) a pyscological boost just knowing that we are gaining daylight again. Where I am located, at latitude 62°N, there is only about 3.5 hours of daylight on Winter Solstice, and 21.5 hours of daylight on Summer Solstice. That is quite a dramatic difference.
When I lived in the lower-48, I could not care less about Winter Solstice. It just did not have the same impact as it does now, this far north.
I also lived in Santa Monica during the 1960s, and I remember those displays along the park stip just above the Pacific Coast Highway. They were all Christian then, and no I was not offended, nor did I feel the need to vandalize their property.
My Winter Solstice celebration just includes a nice meal with good friends. No gifts are exchanged, no decorations are put up, just good food and good company.
Atheist here, HATE when other atheists try to do this. It gives all of us a bad name and is quite pointless. Breaking a tradition and hanging that sign is not going to convert anyone.
If you don't believe in God, as I don't, you should be secure enough in your lack of belief that you really don't care what others believe.
And that goes two ways.....
If you believe in God, you should be secure enough in your belief that you really don't care what others believe or don't believe. AND you also wouldn't worry about silly signs, greetings, or public displays.
I realize that winter is not even half over by the time Winter Solstice comes around, but for six months we have been losing around five minutes per day. When Winter Solstice finally arrives it gives some (including myself) a pyscological boost just knowing that we are gaining daylight again. Where I am located, at latitude 62°N, there is only about 3.5 hours of daylight on Winter Solstice, and 21.5 hours of daylight on Summer Solstice. That is quite a dramatic difference.
When I lived in the lower-48, I could not care less about Winter Solstice. It just did not have the same impact as it does now, this far north.
I also lived in Santa Monica during the 1960s, and I remember those displays along the park stip just above the Pacific Coast Highway. They are all Christian then, and no I was not offended, nor did I feel the need to vandalize their property.
Even where I live its noticable. We don't have a lot of lights around here, smallish town, so when its dark its reasonably dark. Daylight savings time going off is still throwing me off when suddenly the sun starts going down after five. I find where the sky isn't always brightly lit, I do notice the losing and gaining of light. I give an additional meaning, that light, as a form of cheer and hope, is returning bit by bit. When the sun sets early and rises later there is a marked rise in depression.
Sad about Santa Monica and the need to deface what isn't your point of view. My mom was born there and we spent a huge amount of summer days there as kids in the sixties and it sad to see it take this turn.
Three and a half hours of daylight would definately feel very very strange. I'd keep on my daylight bulbs a lot of the time. Curiously, the full spectrum light really does lighten the mood.
I think the whole manger thing is quite questionable too.
I recall a documentary on the Roman census and specifically in that provience. It was a big event. There were barns for their animals, but the barns were crowded, and people did not stay in them. The town charged for space, but they had areas for the visitors to stay, where they sold food, etc. And the mother was Jewish, and at the time strict birth practices were observed, including a ritual bath which also insured clenlieness of the mother and birthplace.
All of this would certainly have been available and has been excavated in Bethleham, including the bath chamber. If she went into labor in the stable, she would have been taken to a suitable place to actually give birth.
So, if its just a story anyway, why do mangers?
What part about "no room at the inn, but you can use the barn" don't you understand? Now I have no idea if this is true or not, but that's how the story goes. Ever heard of "no vacancy"?
Btw, my (library) clerk just wished somebody a "Happy Holiday," even though Thanksgiving is tomorrow... should I have him fired?
Today at the stores, I heard both "Happy Thanksgiving" and "Have a nice holiday".
I don't understand why in other English speaking countries like Australia and the UK it's always "Christmas" this and that, while in the US they try to say "holiday" for everything.
If you believe in God, you should be secure enough in your belief that you really don't care what others believe or don't believe. AND you also wouldn't worry about silly signs, greetings, or public displays.
Militant atheists wants to suppress us the majority, wants to persecute, and destroy everything that has to do with religion in this country. Ah it makes me wish our government was religious like Israel, the UK, etc.
Today at the stores, I heard both "Happy Thanksgiving" and "Have a nice holiday".
I don't understand why in other English speaking countries like Australia and the UK it's always "Christmas" this and that, while in the US they try to say "holiday" for everything.
I guess "Holiday" is just an American Tradition. We shouldn't mess with it.
Why do atheists have to force their beliefs on others?
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