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Old 11-20-2012, 11:18 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,200 posts, read 107,842,460 times
Reputation: 116112

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Obama is obsessed with increasing taxes on "the rich" in spite of evidence showing that this measure only generates an additional $80 billion per year, while we have deficits of $1.2 trillion per year. Obviously, this is a drop in the bucket and does nothing to address our fiscal woes.
But...you just said it would generate tens of billions annually. So clearly it would do something. The other piece of the puzzle is to get out of wars we can't afford, and cut military spending.

Is Obama really "obsessed with increasing taxes on 'the rich' ", or is he for letting the destructive Bush tax cuts lapse? Bush's own economic advisers warned him that those tax cuts would be a disaster. BTW, why do the rich get a tax break on their Social Security contributions? Income over a certain amt. isn't taxed for Social Security. Why?
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:19 AM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,833,505 times
Reputation: 18304
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
I was on a cruise recently, sitting across from an elderly couple (the guy was well into his 70s) during tea and having a conversation. His wife was clearly an Obama supporter, but he was all in for Romney. He kept telling me how Obama was going to cut Medicare, and how the country was overspending. No matter my argument, he simply repeated his talking points. He talked about deficit spending, and how we need to cut EVERYTHING. I asked him if it would be okay to cut Medicare spending entirely from Medicaid (currently, over $200 Billion), and overall Medicare/Medicaid spending by $500 Billion because THAT was deficit spending. He would avoid the question and repeat the talking point.

His wife was amused, but also visibly embarrassed. That gentleman avoided me the rest of the way.
Cut i or entirely cut are two differentthings. Three progrma ;medicare.mediciad and SS are o unsustainable path is spending growth.The deficit and what oit means i other consequences are not goigaway. One can ignore just as Greece did and see the consequences or act just has Germnay did ithe 90's.Medciare and medicid are funded differently has is SSS form both of them.To not address these three is the oath to Greek consequences.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:19 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,989 posts, read 44,799,475 times
Reputation: 13693
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
But wars fatten the coffers of corporations. The amount money this country spend on social programs outside of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid is basically a rounding error.
Social Security and Medicare participants must pay into the system to be eligible for benefits. That's not true of Medicaid. Medicaid doesn't belong in that group. It's a welfare freebie. SS and Medicare are not welfare freebies.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:21 AM
 
20,715 posts, read 19,355,286 times
Reputation: 8280
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
I agree.
Consumption is good and then you want to tax it? Why would you create a reverse subsidy for something you say is inherently good?

Don't get me wrong because consumption is good, for me that is. However you are not only for having someone else consume product without respect to the reciprocal consumption it affords anyone else, but now you want to tax it?

Who can make any sense out of this policy? Its wrong twice over.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:24 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,989 posts, read 44,799,475 times
Reputation: 13693
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Do you own property? If you do then you likely have a ground rent which is a government granted income stream.
Tell that to the millions who are underwater on their mortgages, or who have had to sell their property at significant losses. Or have watched the value of their property deteriorate due to local blight, etc. No income streams, there.
Quote:
I don't care about jobs. Its just broken window fallacy again, You say you don't want to destroy things as if artificial need is materially different.
It is different. A broken window must almost always be repaired/replaced. A luxury item/service does not almost always need to be purchased.
Quote:
Jobs don't create wealth because lots of jobs are make work, paper shuffling and rentier income administration. Jobs that create tangible goods and service result in wealth creation. I am interested in production, not distributions. The only real economic activity is trade. If the trade is not a virtuous loop of real productive activity then its nothing but a transfer payment embedded within it.
So government paper pushers are unnecessary. Pare the government employment ranks down to a bare minimum. What do you think would happen then?
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:28 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,989 posts, read 44,799,475 times
Reputation: 13693
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Consumption is good and then you want to tax it? Why would you create a reverse subsidy for something you say is inherently good?
Because it's fair (paid by all) and it doesn't discriminate. A consumption tax brings revenue in from sources the income tax misses: income acquired via illicit means.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:28 AM
 
30,063 posts, read 18,658,465 times
Reputation: 20877
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
I don't think I can make it any more simple for you. Lobbyists influence our government.


They do you a favor by regulating the supply of medial professionals.


You would if they flooded the market with competition.


I would prefer that you understand that land rental component in the income stream. Ever hear of dibs?

What is the value of this space? What components actually exist in its value? I count 3 of them at least. Who is entitled to it?

We are granted a "favor" by the Feds? Do you think I care how many docs are produced? Hell no. However, one cannot simply "whistle up" a few hundred thousand docs. It requires
1. Adequate facilities for training
2. Adequate and competent instructors
3. A proper volume of patients

This requires a tremendous amount of resources. Again- just ask your congressman



Rent values? The market determines that. On my land in the us, if it was not farmed, I would have it in prairie grass. I don't need the money. I pay taxes on that land, as well as $500K in personal income taxes. That helps dead beats like you, who are long on talk and short on action. We call that "all hat and no cattle.

Regarding our land in brazil, we provide over 200 jobs.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,811,904 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Cut i or entirely cut are two differentthings.
If we were to cut Medicare funding to $200 Billion today (about what would be covered by Medicare Tax), would it be cutting it or entirely cutting it? Would you support it? Remember, $200 Billion is about the net federal expense charged under Medicaid to cover people who are on Medicare (Long Term Care).
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:34 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,989 posts, read 44,799,475 times
Reputation: 13693
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
If we were to cut Medicare funding to $200 Billion today (about what would be covered by Medicare Tax), would it be cutting it or entirely cutting it? Would you support it?
Let's cut Medicaid down to the amount people contribute to it via a payroll tax, as well. Okay?
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:46 AM
 
20,715 posts, read 19,355,286 times
Reputation: 8280
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Tell that to the millions who are underwater on their mortgages, or who have had to sell their property at significant losses. Or have watched the value of their property deteriorate due to local blight, etc. No income streams, there.
Nope. Try looking looking again at EBITDA. 'Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation and Amortization.

That is the punch line. Land owners trying to sucker the rest of us get suckered by finance. The ground rental value is bid up in price by people looking for a free lunch only to turn the ground rent value into an interest payment. The fattest slice of real estate income goes for interest payments. If they had shifted taxes onto the property to keep its value down it would prevent these asset bubbles, fund public expenses and then no taxes on goods and service would be necessary. You missed the the slight of hand from finance who have a huge mortgage payment income stream that should be paying the taxes but instead head to Goldman Sachs.


Quote:
It is different. A broken window must almost always be repaired/replaced. A luxury item/service does not almost always need to be purchased.
Your argument is that it is beneficial for the producer. The only reason why its beneficial to the producer is because the producer takes the money. The money is a lien against the rest of us who get no benefit from the transaction. If a counterfeiter hands you money you gain with the counterfeiter. Its everyone else who loses.


Quote:
So government paper pushers are unnecessary. Pare the government employment ranks down to a bare minimum. What do you think would happen then?
Yeah, that's the general idea, only I apply it consistently.
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