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It would require a major catalyst. The Election was not such a catalyst, but it does give you a glimpse of how a major catalyst would affect people. So, no doubt your part of Generation Y-Work. It isn't like a text message that works instantly. It would make sense that any State or group of people planning to secede plan it out first, right?
Planning...
Mircea
Wow.
What a text-book example of liberal brain-washing.
Did roads exist before "federal roads?"
Why yes, they did. Who paid for them? The States, the counties and the cities. You don't need federal roads. I'm guessing part of your brain-washing includes the fact that you aren't aware of the federal excise tax on gasoline and diesel.
A State that seceded could choose to keep the tax in place -- uh, but of course that money would not go to the federal government, rather it would go to the State.
I hate to pick on Texas, and no offense to Texans or to others in other States looking at secession, but....
That's from the Texas State Legislature.
Here's the thing....Texas gets $6.9 Billion out of the federal sales taxes that the US government collects, but Texas only gets reimbursed $0.80 for each $1.00 in federal excise taxes on gasoline, diesel, kerosene and other petroleum products that it consumes/sells.
If Texas got $1 for each $1, then Texas would get $8.62 Billion --- clearly Texas is better off alone.
Sorry to rain all over your parade, but you might want to look at facts, instead of brain-washed nonsense.
Medicare --- If Texas was alone, then Texas would collect the Medicare Tax instead of the federal government, and also the FICA/SECA taxes for Social Security.
As governor of New York State, FDR set up and operated a social-security-like system for New York residents.
That is proof a State can provide its own Medicare and Social Security programs.
Do you understand that Texas citizens pay $244 Billion to federal government in federal taxes, including personal income tax, capital gains tax, estate tax and corporate tax?
Do you understand that the biennial budgte of Texas is $80.6 billion state budget for FY2012-13?
Do you understand that is $40.3 Billion per year?
$40.3 Billion --- $244 Billion.
Texas can double its annual budget to $80.6 to provide Social Security, Medicare, Roads blah, blah, blah and that extra $203.7 Billion...
...thatgoes into the pockets of Texans.
That means every man, woman and child -- all 23,904,380 Texans -- puts $8,521 into their pocket to spend.
That means an household with four people gets $34,085 to play with each year.
Who on this forum thinks having an extra $34,000 in cash lying around would suck?
Well, then give it to me, because I could really use a Yamaha DGX640 keyboard with a Sound City SMF Tour Series head and two Sound City Twin 15 stacks wired in a series-parallel 4x12 X-pattern (and a B3 Leslie).
So a little less brain-washing and a lot more facts.
AGAIN - less typing on an internet message board and more action. Those who want to leave should just get up and go; they've been braying about it incessantly since the election. Just. Go. You've got it all figured out for them.
But - no. It hasn't happened and it never will. As usual - all talk; no action.
If anything is worth doing, then it's worth doing right the first time. Something like this would take planning, and obviously education people like you who don't understand how the world works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1
Let's chat again when a state actually breaks away and thrives. That would interest me.
Yawn.
I already proved a State would thrive. You're the one claiming a State could not thrive, and you've been unable or unwilling to put up any evidence to support your claim.
AGAIN - less typing on an internet message board and more action. Those who want to leave should just get up and go; they've been braying about it incessantly since the election. Just. Go. You've got it all figured out for them.
But - no. It hasn't happened and it never will. As usual - all talk; no action.
Let's chat again when a state actually breaks away and thrives. That would interest me.
Yawn.
Yes, it may surprise you but there are a handful of states that could make it much easier economically on their own. But empire is a voracious thing and a populace devoted to the power over an inferior domestic them must feel something to keep a glow stoked.
Now you won't hear that in American Civics 101 since that sort of indoctrination seminar is meant to glorify the happiness of undisrupted union with a federal authority collecting and than redistributing across the board from/to 50 other regional authorities to maintain an empire traditionally held together by large rural areas dominated by the social policies of a handful of city-states, such as New York or San Francisco/LA, Chicago, and the like.
Historically, sprawling empires have proven too fractious, too unwieldy when they go on for too long; steam runs out and burned cracks form like on a tea kettle left on a burner after the water has been boiled and not renewed.
Forcing a state to stay in a union they no longer wish to be in is tyranny...it comes at the point of a gun... Not like we have not seen it before... I think it is time to leave the tyrants and make it stick.
Which state is being forced to stay in the union? I haven't heard of any state trying to secede....I have heard of a handful of individuals in random states wanting to secede, but no state has announced wanting to leave....at least not that I have heard.
If anything is worth doing, then it's worth doing right the first time. Something like this would take planning, and obviously education people like you who don't understand how the world works.
I already proved a State would thrive. You're the one claiming a State could not thrive, and you've been unable or unwilling to put up any evidence to support your claim.
Not impressed...
Mircea
Mircea,
Might I just say I'm unimpressed with you as well? First of all - your posts are FAR too long. I have a family and a job and I can't spend all my time reading one overly verbose poster.
Secondly, when a state actually leaves the union and thrives - THEN you can say, I told you so.
Until that time - it's just you bloviating all over CD.
It would require a major catalyst. The Election was not such a catalyst, but it does give you a glimpse of how a major catalyst would affect people. So, no doubt your part of Generation Y-Work. It isn't like a text message that works instantly. It would make sense that any State or group of people planning to secede plan it out first, right?
Planning...
Mircea
Just a small correction, I would be from Gen-X, not Y, I am just a bit too old for Y.
As for your comment about Texas being better off, you are right, they do put in more money than they get back, which they are one of the few Red states with that fortune to put in more than they get back, usually it is a Blue state.
But there is one problem to the Texas GDP, how much of it relies on the federal government?
Quote:
The defense/military industry is the second largest sector of the Texas economy, trailing behind the petroleum and gas industry.
Texas (specifically Dallas and Houston) has a large number of defense contractors which creates sizable employment for the state.
Then of course there is oil and oil refineries.
Now if Texas were to leave the Union, that money they make from the defense and military would basically end because that money belongs to the US. Those bases would then become US owned and controlled bases on US soil or they would close up completely.
Another issue is the oil, yet Texas has a lot of it, but do you honestly think the US is gonna let 1/3 of it's oil supply just peacefully walk away? I wouldn't be surprised to see the US government willing to kill every person in Texas to keep that oil in our country.....which leads to another issue, Texas would basically be without a military if they tried to secede, which would mean it would be a bunch of people with their guns against the US military....not much of a fair fight and it would probably suck for Texas once the US occupied their country for the good of the US.
Of course there were people against secession when we tried to break away from Britain, I never said there weren't.
As for the west, there was never a formal request for secession, but if you want to bone up on your history, try reading about the need to connect the two coast lines by rail, without it the mountains created enough of a natural divide that the talks of starting a new country on the west coast could of happened.
So even though the west never mentioned secession or the formation of another country, according to you they could have without the railroads. And since they could have that is somehow credible? How? Who were they breaking away from?
Lol using force and coercion isn't a recent phenomenon. How do you think the west was settled.
lol I'm not saying it's recent. I'm saying it's a bad thing for society to do. Another reason to separate the job of government with the role of society.
btw more than the west was taken by force and coercion.
Bye. Hope you do well without federal roads, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. etc. etc.
Don't let the door hit you . . . . .
Who do you think pays for that? The people of each state do. Do you think only people in Washington DC and can get things done and not the states themselves?
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