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Old 11-19-2012, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,417,223 times
Reputation: 4190

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Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
I'd love it if someone could post a link or a video where an expert such as Nobel Prize winning economist Dr. Paul Krugman, Ph.D. or someone of equal esteemed progressive stature in the field of economics explains in detail how America will pay down $17 trillion in debt.

I haven't been able to find such an explanation.

Thanks in advance.
See: perpetuity.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:28 PM
 
45,226 posts, read 26,437,203 times
Reputation: 24980
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
No. Congress is authorized by the Constitution to levy taxes to pay the bills of the country.
Hahah good one
What you are saying is, congress is authorized by the constitution to pay for all the things it does, that are not authorized by the constitution
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:30 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,617,602 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
No.


Your right... Our kids and grand kids and our great grand kids.....
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:33 PM
 
Location: DFW
40,951 posts, read 49,183,047 times
Reputation: 55008
They have no plans to lower the debt. Just give more entitlements.

You owe it for all your past sins.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:34 PM
 
Location: S.E. US
13,163 posts, read 1,694,182 times
Reputation: 5132
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpk-nyc View Post
We did it once under Clinton. Bush destroyed it, but we can do it again. It's all about reasonable tax rates coupled with investments that encourage growth.

The cynic in me says that we'll reach a grand bargain, start running a surplus, and yet another Republican president will come in say "It's the people's money!", force through more tax cuts, and we'll be right back where we are now.
The national debt went up during the clinton years.

Yes, the United States had a surplus under Clinton.
...the answer above confuses the "debt" with "annual deficit."
Yes, Clinton ran an annual budget surplus during certain years of his administration, but no, he did not attain "zero debt."

That term refers to the accumulated debt of the U. S. since the 18th century, and Clinton added somewhere between $1.6 trillion and $2 trillion to the debt between 1992 and 2000.

For comparative purposes,
during the 12 years of the Reagan and first Bush administrations, about $3.2 trillion was added to the debt, during the 8 years of the George W. Bush administration, about $4.4 trillion was added.
And Obama added how much?

Did Clinton ever attain zero debt

In addition to being remembered for a strong economy, Bill Clinton is remembered as the last President to preside over balanced budgets.
Given the salience of the national debt issue in American politics today, the surpluses are a major mark of pride for the former President (and arguably the entire country). They shouldn't be.
"I think it is safe to say that we are still suffering the harmful effects of the Clinton budget surpluses," says Stephanie Kelton, an economics professor at the University of Missouri Kansas City.

How Bill Clinton's Balanced Budget Destroyed The Economy - Business Insider

Since Obama took office, the national debt has increased from about $10.6 trillion to more than $16 trillion – a 50% increase.

•Debt per taxpayer: $111,414 and counting

The last balanced budget we had was under the Clinton admnistration. Congress hasn't passed a budget since. (Thanks to the Democrats.)

BTW, the Democrats don't plan to put the money raised through extra taxes to paying off the debt. They plan to put it toward their proposed spending programs.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:35 PM
 
2,635 posts, read 3,511,205 times
Reputation: 1686
Who's the only President in modern history to actually reduce the Federal deficit? Here's a hint:



Two things to notice:
1. The national debt was on its way to getting paid off until Reagan.

2. The spending spike under Obama closely parallels the same spike for FDR. Both inherited economies on the verge of collapse and both executed similar strategies.

It may not be perfect, and it will take a long time to pay off, but the end result in both cases was the nation was saved. Too bad Republicans have a documented history of borrowing when they're in office and then screaming about the debt when they're not.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:37 PM
 
20,718 posts, read 19,360,295 times
Reputation: 8288
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Your right... Our kids and grand kids and our great grand kids.....

A dollar is a government IOU. If you paid off the national debt there would be no money supply. Anytime a government goes into debt it becomes part of the money supply even when its convertible to specie. That is why its nearly impossible to pay down. In this case its not convertible so all money is some form of government debt. You would leave your children cursed in a fool hardy quest. Your plan is similar to Gold Finger. Destroy money.




Warren Mosler: It's Not the Deficit, Stupid!
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:47 PM
 
20,718 posts, read 19,360,295 times
Reputation: 8288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke_Jaguar4 View Post
Who's the only President in modern history to actually reduce the Federal deficit? Here's a hint:



Two things to notice:
1. The national debt was on its way to getting paid off until Reagan.

2. The spending spike under Obama closely parallels the same spike for FDR. Both inherited economies on the verge of collapse and both executed similar strategies.

It may not be perfect, and it will take a long time to pay off, but the end result in both cases was the nation was saved. Too bad Republicans have a documented history of borrowing when they're in office and then screaming about the debt when they're not.
The only way to pay down the national debt is to reduce private financial assets. If the government had no debt then financial assets in the private sector would net to zero like any debt asset relationship. So what are we supposed to use in trade without exchanging the liquid, guaranteed value of national debt?






Net private savings are a mirror image of net deficits. In order to save a financial asset someone needs to run a deficit. In the case above its the government running deficits that allow private savings. Do you intend to run a deficit so that everyone else can save in lieu of the government not serving this role?
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:47 PM
 
Location: North America
5,960 posts, read 5,546,008 times
Reputation: 1951
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
A dollar is a government IOU. If you paid off the national debt there would be no money supply. Anytime a government goes into debt it becomes part of the money supply even when its convertible to specie. That is why its nearly impossible to pay down. In this case its not convertible so all money is some form of government debt. You would leave your children cursed in a fool hardy quest. Your plan is similar to Gold Finger. Destroy money.




Warren Mosler: It's Not the Deficit, Stupid!
Currency and debt are the same thing.

Wow! I didn't realize that.

So if we paid off, say, $3 trillion of our national debt we've then destroyed $3 trillion of currency?

Interesting.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:09 PM
 
20,718 posts, read 19,360,295 times
Reputation: 8288
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
Currency and debt are the same thing.

Wow! I didn't realize that.

So if we paid off, say, $3 trillion of our national debt we've then destroyed $3 trillion of currency?

Interesting.

Correct. Most people don't understand this paradox. You got it quickly. I recall wondering how the central bank could impact the money supply when we were still on a metal standard. Even then government debt acts like money. Marx gave me that insight.
The public debt becomes one of the most powerful levers of primitive accumulation. As with the stroke of an enchanter's wand, it endows barren money with the power of breeding and thus turns it into capital, without the necessity of its exposing itself to the troubles and risks inseparable from its employment in industry or even in usury. The state-creditors actually give nothing away, for the sum lent is transformed into public bonds, easily negotiable, which go on functioning in their hands just as so much hard cash would. But further, apart from the class of lazy annuitants thus created, and from the improvised wealth of the financiers, middlemen between the government and the nation—as also apart from the tax farmers, merchants, private manufacturers, to whom a good part of every national loan renders the service of a capital fallen from heaven—the national debt has given rise to jointstock companies, to dealings in negotiable effects of all kinds, and to agiotage, in a word to stock-exchange gambling and the modern bankocracy.

Back in the day say 100 coins circulated and the government went 10 coins into debt. People would act as if there were 110 coin in circulation because the government was as good as gold. So sovereign debt always became like money. Now that the currency is not convertible, all that is left is government securities. The entire money supply is a government debt.

That is why it was so difficult for governments to pay debt. They would impact liquidity trying to do so even during the metal days.
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