Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 11-23-2012, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,772 posts, read 104,197,450 times
Reputation: 49245

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
That idea is just plain and simple dumb. If I have heard it once I habe heard it ten thousand times.
The facts of the matter are that a huge % of our workers work in low paying service type jobs. For many of them there is no up from here possibility. There are many reasons for that. Maybe they only have an IQ of 80 or so and a base level employment is all they will ever be able to do. There are a lot of other reasons for it also. The fact of the matter is that we should value all work and all workers. It's very clear we do not and that is really terrible. Because the employers will never pay these people any more than is legally required the minimum wage should be raised to at least $10 per hour.

One week as I was travelling about I was in a MacDonalds in Alabama. Talking to the employees I found out these people made something like $4 an hour and almost no benefits at all. They were in a bad spot. No healthcare, could not afford to live in anything better than a shack, no car, etc etc. They all expressed that they hated working there.

A few days later I was having my coffee and muffin in a MacDonalds in Calgary Alberta. I was talking to a young woman who worked there. She made $20 an hour, had a full benefit plan, complete healthcare coverage. She lived in a nice apt. at least that's what she said, had a nice car and she liked working at the place.

The quality of everything in these two restaurants was about equal. The Canadian prices were a little higher but that is almost always the case in everything.

If you Americans like having these "wage slaves" then YOU CAN HAVE THEM. I don't want them here in my country. I really don't like the exploitation of anyone but more than that I don't like the associated costs of having millions of wage slaves in my country. I hate the American slums that cover the land, I hate a crime rate that is 7 times higher than Canada's. I hate the unhappiness and constant crying and wailing in American affairs. One of the biggest roots of all these problems is that hardworking people are not paid enough to keep body and soul together and that makes your country look BAD in the extreme.
call me dumb, so let me call you niave and no smarter if you believe anyone in Al or anywhere else is working for $4 an hour. have you heard of min wage? No, it doesn't apply to food establishments that also provide servers with tips, but $4 an hour, NO. So either you are as dumb as you think I am or you are not totally telling the whole story...The same with the $20 an hour: the word is BULL..simple as that. I do believe the part about a full benefit package...that is about all of your story that is totally true....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-23-2012, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Central Ohio
10,805 posts, read 14,868,691 times
Reputation: 16461
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaimuki View Post
I haven't set foot in a Walmart or a Sears in more than 10 years. I refuse to give either of them my business. Also, I don't do the Black Friday thing.
Last time I stepped foot in a Wal Mart was last summer when I had to have an ink cartridge, business submittals were due first thing in the morning, and they were the only thing open. Other than that it's been years.

What little Christmas shopping I do is completed BEFORE thanksgiving.

Christmas is a religious holiday centered around the birth of Christ and for some reason I can't see Jesus waiting for the stores to open black Friday morning. This is the anti-thesis to everything about Christmas. It is really amazing, we have a country with an ever growing number of atheists yet the holiday is all about anti-Christmas and buying stuff.

As for the WalMart workers and those like them they have only themselves to blame. They have themselves to blame because they shop at WalMart collectively purchasing billions of dollars in Chinese communist made garbage. All the low tech manufacturing jobs went to China because the idiocracy in America said we didn't need jobs like this. We didn't need low tech $15/hr jobs with benefits because we are all going to be computer programmers. We were all going to become professionals!

Who ever dreamed up this garbage in the 80's and 90's ought to be dragged into the street and shot.

There's a piece written by Robert Reich, Clinton's former Secretary of Labor, about how people should not support WalMart blah, blah. What a freaking idiot, where the hell was he when Clinton signed NAFTA and awarded China "Most Favored Nation" status assuring every last "low tech" job would end up being sent overseas? Robert Reich had his head stuck up Clinton's backside?

We need those low tech jobs because not everyone in America can be a professional computer programmer, lawyer or doctor.

Here is how it works.

Where I live there are dozens of closed fabric mills around that used to employ tens of thousands of people. Contrary to what you might think these were not terrible jobs. One of the last closed in 2005 and the average pay for someone with 10 years experence was $14/hr but they did offer full fringe benefits that included 100% company paid health care with pharmacy, dental and eyeglasses for the family. 40 hours was not the normal either, the average work week was 48 hours and they got 8 hours overtime. How they worked was 12 hour shifts and a worker would work 4 shifts then have three consecturive days off.

$14 for 48 hours equals $728.00 for the week which was always with benefits.

Many of these jobs were around Douglas, Georgia and using this wage comparison calculator a comparable salary to $728.00 in Douglas is equivalent to $1,219.00 in San Jose, CA. You aren't going to live high on the hog in Douglas for that but a family can live very comfortably especially if both husand and wife worked at the mill which many did. All you needed was a willingness to work, didn't even need a high school education.

I don't care what you call it but that's better than WalMart. What happened to us as a country that we started to distain such jobs?

What happened is clear, WalMart started selling Chinese made crap (thanks Clinton!) at prices the mills around here could not compete with. Next thing you know ALL the mills around close and workers that used to work in the mills go where to look for whatever jobs are available? You got it, WalMart which now enjoys 100 applications for each job available and now why don't you regale us with your brain power and tells us what happens to wages then.

It's simple, if the mills were still open WalMart would be forced to pay more for workers... that is how the capitalist system works. Keeping foreign goods, cheap Chinese made garbage, out of the country is what our government should be working on doing and instead the traitorous Clinton people sped up the process. Thanks, Congress!

I don't purchase much for Christmas but when I do I make sure it is "Made in America". Not a Christmas decoration or single gift under my tree that has a "Made in Communist Red China" sign on it. I wonder how much "Made in China" crap a union organizer has under his tree this year?

So, my dear poor downtrodden WalMart wage slave, you shopped at Walmart, you spend money buying worthless Chinese garbage so you made your bed so go lay in it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2012, 09:59 AM
 
25,619 posts, read 36,524,155 times
Reputation: 23291
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Since your main point is incorrect, why should anyone address it?

The Walton heirs have created their own companies, they have numerous charities, they sit on literally dozens of boards. Sam Walton taught his children to WORK. Your "understanding" of what they do is based on misinformation.

Are they wealthy? Yes. That's what happens in an American Success Story. Sam Walton starts out with virtually nothing. He marries a solid middle-class girl. He borrows some money from his father-in-law to get started, in his case in retail. When his wife's parents die, he uses her modest inheritance to open his first store. He recognizes an unfilled niche in retail, the rural market, and he capitalizes on it to build a successful chain of stores. He makes a fortune. And the friends and employees who started out with him make fortunes too. When he dies, he leaves an impressive estate. His children use the money to open their own businesses, or to expand businesses. His children use the money to endow the arts and education for their communities. His children use the money they were left to make more money. If Gates had children, that's what would happen with his kids. It happened with the Rockefellers.

The criticism of Wal-Mart is a meme. Retail work is not a lucrative profession. It doesn't matter if you work at Wal-Mart, Lowes, Macy's, K-Mart, Home Depot, Target, Dillards, or Nordstrom's. If you're a clerk at a retail store, any retail store, chances are you're not making much more than minimum wage. Wal-Mart does NOT pay its workers less than other retailers. While there are regional differentiations in pay scales around the country, Wal-Mart pay is competitive and in-line with other retailers in those same regions. And Wal-Mart has always offered its employees stock at reduced prices, and it's insurance/benefits packages have been similar to other retailers.

Rather than the Cost of Wal-Mart, the studies should be entitled the Cost of RETAIL. Because the problems with Wal-Mart are simply the problems of the retail industry. And for those of you who think the big bad Wal-Mart should be replaced with mom-and-pop's, think again. Mom-and-pop stores paid even lower wages, with much fewer benefits, and charged their customers significantly higher prices. Mom-and-pop stores are not an improvement over Wal-Mart economically, though they may be aesthetically more appealing.
Best post of the thead. Bravo.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2012, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,526,897 times
Reputation: 9030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Minimum wage in the US is $7.25/hr for non-tipped workers, which a McDonald's worker is. Alabama's minimum wage is the US minimum wage. The story sounds quite bleak and possibly exaggerated, and lots of people say they hate their jobs.

List of U.S. minimum wages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Canadian story sounds a little rosy. Minimum wage in Ablerta is $9.75, apparently raised just this July (2012).

It's possible the Canadian worker simply had a better attitude about her job than the storeful of people you supposedly talked to in Alabama.

List of minimum wages in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you want to get into a discussion of minimum wage and whether it should be raised, should McDonald's provide benefits (I think it should), that is a different topic.
There was such a shortage of workers in Alberta that employers were forced to pay good wages or they would have NO EMPLOYEES.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2012, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,526,897 times
Reputation: 9030
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
call me dumb, so let me call you niave and no smarter if you believe anyone in Al or anywhere else is working for $4 an hour. have you heard of min wage? No, it doesn't apply to food establishments that also provide servers with tips, but $4 an hour, NO. So either you are as dumb as you think I am or you are not totally telling the whole story...The same with the $20 an hour: the word is BULL..simple as that. I do believe the part about a full benefit package...that is about all of your story that is totally true....
I talked to servers all over the USA and some were getting $2 an hour with no benefits.
In Alberta the MacDonalds were offering $20 an hour and still could not fill their staffing requirements. Besides experencing it first hand I watched a special on it on the CBC. One McDees owner was cleaning tables, flipping burgers and just filling in where ever because he could not get people to work for him. Places like Subway HAVE to bring in foreign "Guest Workers" or they are just out of business. That is one of the biggest benefits of "Full employment".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2012, 10:13 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,738,360 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
The enormous consumer surplus Walmart consumers enjoy makes Walmart quite possibly the greatest company in the history of mankind.
I don't argue that. Everything has advantages and disadvantages. The leverage that Wal-Mart used to get lower prices benefits the customers of Wal-Mart, but drives its vendors to work on slimmer and slimmer profit margins, so that those vendors have to make cuts somewhere. The success of Wal-Mart at using that leverage has driven other retailers to follow suit. Retail and manufacturing have a co-dependent relationship, just as all parts of the economy impact other parts. Finance/banking raise interest rates, it impacts all other economic sectors. Unions force companies to take better care of their employees, but that means the employer's costs go up, and prices go up, affecting all other economic sectors. Energy companies employ new and better technology, to better exploit energy resources, and energy costs go down, affecting all other economic sectors. There are intended effects, and unintended effects, and the study of economics is about understanding how the complex relationships in an economy play out with both the intended and the unintended effects of specific actions and conditions.

Wal-Mart is neither hero or villain. They are just huge, and the sheer size of the company means that their actions aren't just ripples in the global economy, their actions are more like waves. The unions that want to unionize Wal-Mart's enormous workforce are using their power to impact Wal-Mart's bottom line negatively. They are selling a story about Wal-Mart. But the story's narrative isn't entirely honest, because, as I stated before, the problems aren't truly with Wal-Mart, the problems are with RETAIL. And frankly, unions aren't motivated out of selflessness. I think attacking a single company should be for that company's sins. I think most people think that. And so people think that the attacks on Wal-Mart mean that Wal-Mart is singularly at fault. And that's not true. Wal-Mart is just one retailer. And Wal-Mart may be the biggest retailer, but actually, the biggest employer in retail isn't Wal-Mart. It's small business employers. Who actually pay less than Wal-Mart and offer fewer benefits. Because they are in retail, and the business model for retail is ultimately a very thin profit margin. There's a reason for bait-and-switch, there's a reason for loss leaders, there's a reason for low wages in retail. And the thin profit margin for retail has been around much, much longer than Wal-Mart, or than Sears, or than any other retailer. Wal-Mart is not the enemy of the American economy. Unions might like people to think so, but there are people who think that unions are the enemy of the American economy, too. And that's not true, either. The real enemy of the American economy is imbalance. That's what investors should be looking at. That's what successful investors do look at. Where is the imbalance, what impact is an imbalance having, what's being done about the imbalance?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2012, 10:13 AM
 
27,625 posts, read 21,032,001 times
Reputation: 11091
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
no one ever claimed the company was filled with saints, but I think I know a little more about WalMart than you., In fact I know I do. Blaming WalMart for creating poor people is crazy, thinking only poor people work there or shop there is just as nuts. No one is going to force you to shop at any big box store (which btw, all all very similar) but they do serve a purpose and they do not create poverty. Retail, like the food industry and the travel industry are not known for paying top salaries to hourly employees. They are also jobs that are normally held by uneducated people and those starting out in the working world.

Nita
I knew that there was a up close and personal reason that you are defending Walmart as if your life depended upon it. I really do not care very much about what that reason is, but I do know that you are having difficulty in comprehending the facts as to how these parasitic giants prepare vats of kool aid for people that have come to worship them and believe that their very existence makes life possible. How did the world spin on its axis without them...

Quote:
We recently heard the astounding statistic that 6 members of the Walton family, heirs to the Walmart fortune, have a total wealth of $93 billion – more than the bottom 30% of Americans combined. At the same time, the family, which controls nearly 50% of company stock is raking in more than $2 billion/year in stock dividends alone.

Some have responded to criticism of the Waltons by arguing that the family is helping to create much needed jobs. Sadly for U.S. workers and families, the facts just don’t support this statement. Here are the facts.

Top Reasons the Walton Family and Walmart are NOT
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2012, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,158 posts, read 23,540,121 times
Reputation: 38442
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
Where are you getting the idea Home Depot pays good salaries? I don't know about the rest. Also their workers are not just checkers, but actual salespeople who know something aboutg the dept they work in. They are slightly different from the normal WalMart worker. I am gernalizing of course.
Actually, this is true. Some time ago, when I just wanted a job, any job, I applied at Home Depot. You have to take a fricken SAT, (it felt like one), to get a job as a cashier. Apparently they want you to have a clue about what you are ringing up...you don't just stand at the register and smile.

WAY different than a Wally World employee.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2012, 10:27 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,738,360 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
I talked to servers all over the USA and some were getting $2 an hour with no benefits.
In Alberta the MacDonalds were offering $20 an hour and still could not fill their staffing requirements. Besides experencing it first hand I watched a special on it on the CBC. One McDees owner was cleaning tables, flipping burgers and just filling in where ever because he could not get people to work for him. Places like Subway HAVE to bring in foreign "Guest Workers" or they are just out of business. That is one of the biggest benefits of "Full employment".
Some servers whose income is supplemented by tips may get paid $2/hr. Servers at McDonalds do not get tips, and therefore the LAW requires that they be paid the minimum wage or higher. Nobody at McDonalds is getting paid $2/hr or $4/hr. The waitress at La-di-da's may get paid $2/hr, with the expectation that she's going to get tips at the rate of $10/hr.

Canada may have a shortage of food industry workers. And may offer great pay. I believe the pay at McDonald's in Vail Colorado is much better than the pay at McDonald's in Pine Bluff AR. The costs of living in Vail Colorado are significantly higher than the costs in Pine Bluff AR. High pay scales are related to higher costs of living.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2012, 10:31 AM
 
24,488 posts, read 41,003,023 times
Reputation: 12919
Wait staff gets has a minimum take-home of the minimum wage of $7.25. This rate varies by state and that is the law.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top