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Old 11-25-2012, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,889,092 times
Reputation: 11259

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zachj7 View Post
While libertarianism looks good on paper, it's illogical that in practice you can run a country as diverse and big as ours on those principles. It just doesn't work. Not for the long run.
Why doesn't it, All Knowing One?
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:39 PM
 
Location: North America
5,960 posts, read 5,546,690 times
Reputation: 1951
Quote:
Originally Posted by cometclear View Post
You think that tariffs would be sufficient to pay for War Inc. and the other functions o the federal government most libertarians do favor? Also, how would they pay off that debt so quickly? Or did you mean 500 years in the future?
Libertarians don't do war...only defense.

The constitutional functions of the federal government are to be paid for through taxation...just as the Constitution says.

And there wouldn't be a debt with libertarians in charge so that wouldn't be a worry.
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:41 PM
 
Location: North America
5,960 posts, read 5,546,690 times
Reputation: 1951
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Your question is BS. No one is proposing anarchy.
Liberals often confuse anarchy and libertarianism.
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Old 11-25-2012, 03:11 PM
 
5,252 posts, read 4,677,849 times
Reputation: 17362
For those who think that there is no role for government in the lives of individuals it seems they haven't really thought out the needs of human society in terms of ancient socio/economic constructs. Tribes preceded nations, centralized leadership was sometimes called upon to address the needs of people as a collective against individuals. Banishment by the collective was necessary in cases of malcontents becoming belligerents, thieves who prayed upon individuals because they were physically stronger than their victims, and women who needed protection in case their individual protector was gone needed the help from the group. All these issues came up back then in the same way they do today, it's the abuse of power that we need to fear, not power in and of itself.
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Old 11-25-2012, 04:09 PM
 
5,261 posts, read 4,156,006 times
Reputation: 2264
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Your question is BS. No one is proposing anarchy.
I have repeatedly stated that I am speaking of minarchism, which dominates libertarian thought. Let me explain what that means. In their interpretations of the Constitution, the bulk of libertarians contend that the only appropriate functions of the federal government are for maintaining a defense system (War Inc.), a limited justice system and a very, very few regulatory functions.

Now, continue on claiming I am contending that libertarians are anarchists. I've read Murray Rothbard, David Friedman and other anarcho-capitalists, so save it.

All this because you cannot cite a single civilization that has implemented these minarchist principles of a super-limited state and prospered. Given the histrionics here, some of you would do well to move to Somalia or Haiti, which would be the closest approximations of the limited government you favor. Gosh, what "freedom" they have there.
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Old 11-25-2012, 04:13 PM
 
5,261 posts, read 4,156,006 times
Reputation: 2264
Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
For those who think that there is no role for government in the lives of individuals it seems they haven't really thought out the needs of human society in terms of ancient socio/economic constructs. Tribes preceded nations, centralized leadership was sometimes called upon to address the needs of people as a collective against individuals. Banishment by the collective was necessary in cases of malcontents becoming belligerents, thieves who prayed upon individuals because they were physically stronger than their victims, and women who needed protection in case their individual protector was gone needed the help from the group. All these issues came up back then in the same way they do today, it's the abuse of power that we need to fear, not power in and of itself.
Precisely. As we look through history at most of the continents, we will see that centralized states accounted for the greatest civilizations in human history.
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Old 11-25-2012, 04:14 PM
 
5,261 posts, read 4,156,006 times
Reputation: 2264
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
Liberals often confuse anarchy and libertarianism.
Tell me what you know about libertarianism. Which libertarians have you read? What libertarian journals do you currently read?
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Old 11-25-2012, 04:20 PM
 
5,261 posts, read 4,156,006 times
Reputation: 2264
Quote:
Originally Posted by clb10 View Post
Libertarians don't do war...only defense.

The constitutional functions of the federal government are to be paid for through taxation...just as the Constitution says.

And there wouldn't be a debt with libertarians in charge so that wouldn't be a worry.
In no place in the Constitution does it say that the "Constitutional functions of the federal government are to be paid for through taxation." Show me the article, section and clause where it states that. It does grant Congress the power to tax, but nowhere does it state that this is the sole means of raising revenue to pay or government functions.

Do you understand the difference between deficits and debts? How would a libertarian pay off the debt after slashing or eliminating taxes entirely and relying on tariffs?
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Old 11-25-2012, 04:32 PM
 
Location: North America
5,960 posts, read 5,546,690 times
Reputation: 1951
Quote:
Originally Posted by cometclear View Post
I have repeatedly stated that I am speaking of minarchism, which dominates libertarian thought. Let me explain what that means. In their interpretations of the Constitution, the bulk of libertarians contend that the only appropriate functions of the federal government are for maintaining a defense system (War Inc.), a limited justice system and a very, very few regulatory functions.

Now, continue on claiming I am contending that libertarians are anarchists. I've read Murray Rothbard, David Friedman and other anarcho-capitalists, so save it.

All this because you cannot cite a single civilization that has implemented these minarchist principles of a super-limited state and prospered. Given the histrionics here, some of you would do well to move to Somalia or Haiti, which would be the closest approximations of the limited government you favor. Gosh, what "freedom" they have there.
...and I thought Rachel Maddow was a self-important, look down her nose, arrogant "Let me explain life to you little person" liberal.

Wow...you really give her a run for her money.

I nominate you and Paul Krugman to lead the U.S. Olympic Liberal Arrogance Teamâ„¢
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Old 11-25-2012, 04:33 PM
 
Location: North America
5,960 posts, read 5,546,690 times
Reputation: 1951
Quote:
Originally Posted by cometclear View Post
In no place in the Constitution does it say that the "Constitutional functions of the federal government are to be paid for through taxation." Show me the article, section and clause where it states that. It does grant Congress the power to tax, but nowhere does it state that this is the sole means of raising revenue to pay or government functions.

Do you understand the difference between deficits and debts? How would a libertarian pay off the debt after slashing or eliminating taxes entirely and relying on tariffs?
Please point out where I wrote "sole means".

You reallly don't understand libertarianism, do you?
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