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Old 11-26-2012, 04:14 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,667 posts, read 44,417,536 times
Reputation: 13570

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Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sAutomatic View Post
Someone's clearly made a fool of you and convinced you that liberals are communists.
How are they not? There are NUMEROUS threads here on city-data, one after the other with liberals wholeheartedly endorsing the concept of forcefully TAKING from some to give to others.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:16 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,880 posts, read 15,152,974 times
Reputation: 5239
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
A false dichotomy has been erected by people declaring themselves "the producer class" vs. "the dependent class."


But, where a single mother of two may work 40 hours+ as a waitress at a local diner, or a father works as a landscaper all day, they still may not be able to provide for their family. (Could be due to declining wages and benefits in these fields, among many other factors). Even IF their respective families have to receive Medicaid or school lunches for the kids.... are the waitress and landscaper REALLY "non producers?"

Arguably, the waitress and landscaper produce and work harder than a financier or investor.



The Capitalist economy requires an underclass of unskilled, low wage workers. Why demonize those who fulfill important sectors and functions in our economy. Just because something does not pay well, doesn't mean it's non-essential. And, just because something pays well doesn't mean its a valuable or even necessary part of the economy.


what about the woman who has 15 kids by 3-4 different dads who says the govmint owes me money, while she sits on her couch watching tv, using a cell phone and eating potatoe chips?

some people need a helping hand, but some just need a good kick in the teeth.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:20 PM
 
10,553 posts, read 9,614,581 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Rossi View Post
They steer money into places it is needed, I suppose.

Where it's needed? uh - no. They make money to make money for their own pockets. If anything the private equity firms, like Bain, destroy companies, send jobs overseas, and rake in the money from doing so.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:25 PM
 
10,553 posts, read 9,614,581 times
Reputation: 4784
Quote:
Originally Posted by totsuka View Post
It is tough being poor or have a job you hate. There is no worse feeling in the world to look around and see other people better off than you. But, at the end of the day, Capitalism is the only solution to uplift people out of poverty.
Pure market driven capitalism doesn't always work. Is a professional football player actually more valuable for our society than a teacher or a doctor? Of course not. But capitalism determines that he make $36 million a year and a teacher $36,000 a year.

Is Angelina Jolie more valuable for our society than the brain surgeon who saves your life? Of course not.

Is an investment banker more valuable than a child care worker? Of course not. But the banker makes millions, the child care worker earns poverty level wages.

Many people toil long and hard at an essential service, like driving a cab, and remain in poverty all their life.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:41 PM
 
3,695 posts, read 4,971,638 times
Reputation: 2070
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
How are they not? There are NUMEROUS threads here on city-data, one after the other with liberals wholeheartedly endorsing the concept of forcefully TAKING from some to give to others.
Because that isn't communism. In communism there is nothing to take from anyone since everything is collectively owned. Socialism is where wealth can be redistributed and even then every form of government has some degree of socialism if they want stability(cause if conditions degrade enough, you get revolts).
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:49 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,667 posts, read 44,417,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
what about the woman who has 15 kids by 3-4 different dads who says the govmint owes me money, while she sits on her couch watching tv, using a cell phone and eating potatoe chips?
You mean women like this...


Single Mom and her 15 Children on Welfare - YouTube
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:55 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,667 posts, read 44,417,536 times
Reputation: 13570
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
Where it's needed? uh - no. They make money to make money for their own pockets. If anything the private equity firms, like Bain, destroy companies, send jobs overseas, and rake in the money from doing so.
Bain gets the money? Hmmm... Let's look at who REALLY gets the profits earned by Bain ...
Quote:
Bain’s private-equity executives have enriched dozens of organizations and millions of individuals in the Democratic base — including some who scream most loudly for President Obama’s re-election.

Government-worker pension funds are the chief beneficiaries of Bain’s economic stewardship.

* Illinois Municipal Retirement Fund ($2.2 million)
* Indiana Public Retirement System ($39.3 million)
* Iowa Public Employees’ Retirement System ($177.1 million)
* The Los Angeles Fire and Police Pension System ($19.5 million)
* Maryland State Retirement and Pension System ($117.5 million)
* Public Employees’ Retirement System of Nevada ($20.3 million)
* State Teachers Retirement System of Ohio ($767.3 million)
* Pennsylvania State Employees’ Retirement System ($231.5 million)
* Employees’ Retirement System of Rhode Island ($25 million)
* San Diego County Employees Retirement Association ($23.5 million)
* Teacher Retirement System of Texas ($122.5 million)
* Tennessee Consolidated Retirement System ($15 million)

the following public universities invested over $400 million with Bain Capital between 1998 and 2008:

* Purdue University ($15.9 million)
* University of California ($225.7 million)
* University of Michigan ($130 million)
* University of Virginia ($20 million)
* University of Washington ($33 million)
Look Who Profits At Bain Capital

Seems those "greedy rich" are actually public employee unions and public universities. Should they give all that money back because lefties don't like the way it was earned?

No pensions? Higher tuition? What say you? Are you good with that?
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:59 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,667 posts, read 44,417,536 times
Reputation: 13570
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
Because that isn't communism. In communism there is nothing to take from anyone since everything is collectively owned.
How did any of the Communist countries get there from where they were before? They forcefully TOOK from some to give to others.


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Old 11-26-2012, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,610 posts, read 26,260,135 times
Reputation: 12633
Quote:
Originally Posted by crone View Post
I guess we need to convince the church to tell their parishioners that birth control is OK. Not holding my breath. Perhaps the Church can support all those welfare kids.

Or people could just stop having kids they know they cannot afford.
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:07 PM
 
723 posts, read 2,188,976 times
Reputation: 927
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
Pure market driven capitalism doesn't always work. Is a professional football player actually more valuable for our society than a teacher or a doctor? Of course not. But capitalism determines that he make $36 million a year and a teacher $36,000 a year.

Is Angelina Jolie more valuable for our society than the brain surgeon who saves your life? Of course not.

Is an investment banker more valuable than a child care worker? Of course not. But the banker makes millions, the child care worker earns poverty level wages.

Many people toil long and hard at an essential service, like driving a cab, and remain in poverty all their life.
Your equations don't include the value of entertainment in our society and the power of numbers.

Yes, if you put a teacher and a foot ball player in a room and give me 20,000 for one of their services, then I will give it to to teacher. However expand that scenario to an entire nation. A teacher can only service x number of kids at one time (unless they make instructional DVDs or something). A football player (or more specifically a football team) can provide entertainment for millions at the rock bottom price of $30 per person (or whatever the hell tickets cost these days).

The banker in the equation might take care of your money, and my money, and the money of everyone in the city, and the child care worker might take care of my kids and your kids, but no one elses kids. What if I have lots of money but no kids? What if i have loads of money that I don't know what to do with and my banker keeps it safe for me. For his time i will give him a small percentage (lets say 1%) plus 10% of the interest/profits that they earn me on my money.
Again yes I agree with you. Counting money < taking care of children, but that doesn't take into account the number of individuals serviced or the difficulty of the service being provided.
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