Increasing capital gains tax rates to previous levels
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Perhaps you should add another dimension to your thinking and bring it up to at least two dimension.
Poker has Pot Odds, which are a balance between the value of your hand, the potential winnings, i.e. what is in the pot, and how much do I have to put at risk to win it. For example, if you have a so-so hand, and the bet to you is $100. It is one thing to consider if the pot is $500, and quite another if the pot is $5,000. The chance of winning are the same, but the postential returns in one case are low, and in another high.
Same thing in investments, What are the odds of making money, how much to I stand to make, and how much will it cost me (tax) if I do (or, in other words, how much do I really win, after taxes).
I guess you didnt catch the quotation marks i inserted, one of the many nuances you miss in life. It's not my scenario, it's Warren Buffet's, a person who has made billions by investing and who is, im sure, much more intelligent than your peabrain could fathom. The tax code is not concerned with risk. You make money you pay taxes on it, including winnings in gambling, so your analogy is the joke because it makes zero sense.
That's nonsense. Almost all capital gains in concentrated in the top 1% and half of that is concentrated in top 0.1%.
If someone is getting retirement income from Wall Street investments, that isn't capital gains. That's dividends and interest. Also, money withdrawn from 401K accounts is taxed as ordinary income, not capital gains.
The idea that we need exceptionally low taxes on capital gains to protect some mythological retiree is contrary to what we know about who is subject to capital gains taxes.
Absolutely, the top 10 % own most of the nation's stocks & bonds, with more and more of it concentrated in the top 1 and top 0.1 %. As long as the capital gains tax is progressive so that someone on social security who realizes a capital gain on an investment of say $1000, isn't taxed at the same rate as someone making millions in capital gains, then it is way overdue.
That's nonsense. Almost all capital gains in concentrated in the top 1% and half of that is concentrated in top 0.1%.
If someone is getting retirement income from Wall Street investments, that isn't capital gains. That's dividends and interest. Also, money withdrawn from 401K accounts is taxed as ordinary income, not capital gains.
The idea that we need exceptionally low taxes on capital gains to protect some mythological retiree is contrary to what we know about who is subject to capital gains taxes.
I trade stocks and fill out a Schedule D almost every other year if not every year.
And last year was horrible as they introduced 2 new forms that had to be filled out before you could fill out Schedule D. I laughed when I saw the usual government "paperwork reduction act" phrase.
Oh and I'm retired too.
Do I get wings and fairy dust for being "mythological" ?
I trade stocks and fill out a Schedule D almost every other year if not every year.
And last year was horrible as they introduced 2 new forms that had to be filled out before you could fill out Schedule D. I laughed when I saw the usual government "paperwork reduction act" phrase.
Oh and I'm retired too.
Do I get wings and fairy dust for being "mythological" ?
And I'm not the 1%
No question many people use capital gains but it is a drop in the bucket for most.
Agree on the schedule D, who ever dreamed up that form should be put in a padded room, thank god for turbo tax.
I trade stocks and fill out a Schedule D almost every other year if not every year.
And last year was horrible as they introduced 2 new forms that had to be filled out before you could fill out Schedule D. I laughed when I saw the usual government "paperwork reduction act" phrase.
Oh and I'm retired too.
Do I get wings and fairy dust for being "mythological" ?
And I'm not the 1%
What you said above doesn't negate what I said, "almost all capital gains in concentrated in the top 1% and half of that is concentrated in top 0.1%."
I didn't say nobody below the top 1% pay capital gains taxes, but the few hundred or few thousand dollars every other year that you declare, those in the top 0.1% are declaring tens of millions.
Greg Anrig at the Century Foundation has a good summary of how taxing capital gains taxed lower than ordinary income creates huge incentives to manipulate income to make so it come out as capital gains.
Most forms of income—salaries and wages, rents, royalties, interest—are considered “ordinary income” by the Internal Revenue Service and are taxed according to marginal rates ranging from 10 percent to 35 percent. But long-term capital gains, or income from the sale of “capital assets” held for more than a year, are taxed at lower rates. The definition of capital assets includes all property held by taxpayers that isn’t specifically excluded—but the major forms of capital assets that produce gains are interests in businesses, securities, and real estate.
The current long-term capital-gain rate is 15 percent for most taxpayers who have capital gains (people in the 10 percent and 15 percent income tax brackets pay a zero percent rate, but do not have much capital-gain income). Under a law passed during the George W. Bush administration and recently extended, the top capital-gain rate is slated to rise to 20 percent in 2013 and lower-bracket taxpayers will pay 10 percent.
Capital gains have long been taxed at lower rates than ordinary income but today’s rates are at historic lows.
...
Who benefits?
The benefits of preferential rates for capital gains are enjoyed by the wealthiest Americans because they’re the ones who tend to receive this type of income. More than 70 percent of the benefit goes to taxpayers with annual income of more than $1 million, a group that comprises only about 0.3 percent of all taxpayers.[1]
Absolutely, the top 10 % own most of the nation's stocks & bonds, with more and more of it concentrated in the top 1 and top 0.1 %.
Fail-Boat.
2010 Preliminary IRS Data
7,200,065 tax returns filed with $320,126,367,000 in Net Capital Gains. For AGI < $250,000 there were 752,070 returns filed with $250,256,886,000 in Net Capital Gains.
Uh, I guess I'd better do the math for you...that would be 78%.
6,574,859 tax returns filed with $5,842,520,000 in Capital Gain Distributions. For AGI < $250,000 there were 865,587 returns with $2,018,207,000 in Capital Gain Distributions.
That would be 34.5%
12,758,052 tax returns claimed a Net Capital Loss of $29,732,934,000. For AGI < $250,000there were 1,140,600 claiming 3,023,579,000 in Net Capital Losses.
That would be 10%.
So you want to punish those who earn more than $250,000 because they know how to invest while the 90% lose their shirts because they don't know what they're doing.
Got it. I don't guess it ever occurred to you that the top 10% has more wealth because they spend more time studying investments, instead of watching Dancing With The Stars and Survivor! Appalachian Outhouse.
You're not one of those "Everyone's A Winner" pukes are you?
They got pills for people like you who suffer from Penis Envy and Breast-Implant Envy.
When talking about trickle down economics, this Mircea person happily states that the trickling down happens everywhere except here in the US.
It's not my fault you don't understand economics and that you suffer from psychosis, having impaired reality testing; that is, you are unable to distinguish personal subjective experience from the reality of the external world.
Your doctor will probably prescribble Haldol for you.
Economics is about equilibrium --- which is not the same thing as "equality."
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Originally Posted by dman72
He/she is basically happy that Americans have been screwed by trickle down economics, because he/she has a resentment against them, thinks they are spoiled.
You're not spoiled; you're willfully blissfully ignorant. And I'm a US Citizen. Natural-born type. Combat veteran. Disabled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72
On the one hand, while being spiteful and nasty, that position supports mine in one way, in admitting that trickle down is bad public policy for THIS country...
Thank you for proving my earlier supposition that you don't understand economics and that you suffer from psychosis.
If you don't like how trickle-down works, then you should have thought of that before you engaged in 100 years of horrid foreign policy that created the very situation that is happening now in the world.
You illegally overthrew the Greek government, once in 1948 and again in 1967. Was that a smart thing to do? It's biting you in the ass right now.
In Guatemala, Chiquita -- yes, the banana company -- owned 100% of the electrical generating capacity and the only port in Guatemala. Chiquita as a monopoly -- as you would expect -- charged monopolistic rates for electricity and port usage which hampered development.
When President Arbenz started building a port to compete against Chiquita, and then started building electric plants to compete against Chiquita, Harry Truman wanted to murder Arbenz in cold-blood, but instead Ike illegally over-threw Arbenz.
Was that good public policy? Because those people are coming to your country taking your jobs, and the ones that don't come here to take your jobs, are taking your jobs that are exported from your country to Guatemala.
And Juan gets $1.25/hour to run his MAZAK machine and crank out 12 parts an hour.
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Originally Posted by dman72
It's also the reason that nonsensical hyperbole that insinutates that a 2% increase in taxes will have people fleeing the country should be dismissed as quickly as it is spouted.
I never said that, and this thread is about Capital Gains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72
I like the people I elect to protect my concerns first, not workers in Malaysia or Romania.
Thank you once again for proving my previous supposition.
The most important thing about Economics that you need to understand, is that you cannot control it. It's sort of like a cat. 1% of the time it might do what you want it to do, but the other 99% of the time it's going to do what it wants to do.
So if you're electing people to protect you economically, then you are wasting your time and effort, because they can do nothing; they are powerless to stop what is happening.
This development.....it never ends...figuratively speaking. It never ends in your life-time. You screaming about China now, will you might just want to save your breath, because in short-order, your going to be screaming bloody murder about Central Asia, and then about 20 years after that, you're going to be screaming bloody murder about sub-Saharan Africa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72
You have a bit of a grudge against Americans, don't you Mircea? Every other post is about how everyone here are spoiled brats.
I never once said anything about spoiled brats.
How about addressing the facts I've laid out for you? Oh, sorry, that's right, you suffer from a psychotic break from reality. Well, if you ever get on medication, perhaps you can address the reality of these issues I presented.
It is an irrefutable fact that increasing the Capital Gains Tax Rate results in the loss of Capital Gains Tax Revenues. It is also a fact that lowering the Capital Gains Tax Rate results in an increase in Capita Gains Tax Revenues.
Those facts are clearly elucidated in one of the Congressional Research Service reports (and elsewhere).
Are you going to refute those facts, or continue to demonstrate that your reality is separate and apart from the external world?
I understand it is counter-intuitive, but the simple fact is that raising the Capital Gains Tax Rate will result in declining Capital Gains Tax Revenues, causing harm to your economy due to the fact that your government will have to "borrow" more money. Taking no action on the Capital Gains Tax Rate will result in the government continuing to collect substantial amounts of tax revenues.
Again, Congressional Research Service reports bear that out, but if you have evidence to the contrary, then present it.
Also, if you are up to the challenge, then address this...
No one is going to pay the prices for Fat Union Fred making $30/hour to run his MAZAK machine making 12 parts an hour, when they can buy the same quality parts cheaper from Batalog in the Philippines who's earning $1.60/hour to run his MAZAK machine making 12 parts an hour, or buy them from Dorina in Romania who's getting paid $2.45/hour to run her MAZAK machine making 12 parts an hour.
......because no one single Liberal has ever been able to address it, or refute it, or demonstrate that it is possible for the US to compete in the global economy with such disproportionally high wages.
Since you reject more expensive US made goods for lower priced foreign imports, can you explain why people foreign countries should or would want to pay more for higher priced American goods?
Can you show the math of how the rest of the world can afford to pay more for American made goods?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72
Don't worry, within a generation or 2 your Romanian offspring will be just as spoiled.
Not so fast there, since that would suggest that others and myself were successful in preventing the US from turning Romania (and Bulgaria) into a smoking cinder its quest to take over the eastern Russian republics.
Of course Obama is going to keep US forces in Afghanistan through 2014....you need those airbases there to invade Iran.
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