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No, it's because crime statistics don't lie. Don't want an entire sub group of your race looked upon as thugs? Then stop acting like thugs in at such a incredible rate. Simple as that. Oh, and this is not a racist American thing. Travel to just about any non-black majority country and you will encounter the same exact attitude.
how do you know they were thugs to begin with or u jus gon mix eryone in one bunch? jus cuz they were black and listen to rap? theres no gun
The gun issue is not relevant as to whether or not they had a gun (and I think they did have one). What is relevant here is whether or not the man had reasonable FEAR of being harmed. He requested that they turn down their garbage rap. They proceeded to cuss and threaten his physical safety. They began to open the doors to the vehicle was in. 4 thug teenagers. This is enough to make a reasonable person think that they are in grave danger. It sure as hell would make me think so. And under Stand Your Ground, if you reasonably feel you are about to be harmed, you may use deadly force.
ok now how bout this
i listen to rap all the time
u wan aks me to turn it down and suddenly come up to my car wit an angry face
then i have a reasonable fear of bein harmed cuz maybe u have a gun or someth and i get easily scared when i see angry white people, esp in florida so i shoot yo ass cuz i thot u tried to reach, i was being reasonable, rite?
that's YO logic
No, it's because crime statistics don't lie. Don't want an entire sub group of your race looked upon as thugs? Then stop acting like thugs in at such a incredible rate. Simple as that. Oh, and this is not a racist American thing. Travel to just about any non-black majority country and you will encounter the same exact attitude.
So by your reasoning, an entire subgroup of white men that rape, molest and murder children and young women represents an entire race? So maybe you should stop acting like vile defiants at such a incredible rate. Simple as that. Oh and this is not racists American Thing.
It is not my responsibility or anyone else's to control the behavior of the next person, so why make such a incredibly ignorant statement
That's not why I was implying at all. I think what this guy did was completely wrong. I was responding to the posters assertion that non-whites have an irrational fear of black men. I think many non-whites do fear young black men. That still doesn't give them a right to shoot them at the slightest provocation or interaction. My guess is this guy was drunk, looking for a fight, then panicked and drove off as soon as he was done unloading his gun in to the car. If he truly thought he was in danger then he would have called the police himself and waited.
So by your reasoning, an entire subgroup of white men that rape, molest and murder children and young women represents an entire race? So maybe you should stop acting like vile defiants at such a incredible rate. Simple as that. Oh and this is not racists American Thing.
Well, in a lot of ways white men are looked at as pedophiles. As a white man, walk in to a park full of children and their mothers and see what the reaction is. Odds are police will be there within minutes. As I said before, while this incident is horrible, the posters I was responding to made a ridiculous assertion. To act as if black men are under a constant threat of being shot by white men is beyond laughable. A young black man has more of a chance of being killed in the bathroom then the victim of some wacko vigilantly. The greatest threat to young black males is other young black males.
Well, in a lot of ways white men are looked at as pedophiles. As a white man, walk in to a park full of children and their mothers and see what the reaction is. Odds are police will be there within minutes. As I said before, while this incident is horrible, the posters I was responding to made a ridiculous assertion. To act as if black men are under a constant threat of being shot by white men is beyond laughable. A young black man has more of a chance of being killed in the bathroom then the victim of some wacko vigilantly. The greatest threat to young black males is other young black males.
I agree with you that the greatest threat to black males are other black males. But on the flip side, the greatest threat to white men are other white men. Whites mostly kill whites and blacks mostly kill blacks and hispanics mostly kill hispanics.
Also wanted to point out that one shouldn't rely on statistics, especially not crime statistics. Violent crime in general is not something that is rampant, not amongst black men and not amongst any other subset of society. When it happens it is horrible, but only a small amount of black men actually commit any violent crime and those small minority, in no way should be a representation of all black men.
And I may sound like a conspiracy theorist when I say this, but I will state that I don't trust statistics being that many whites just may not be reported as much as black people are. In the early 20th century through to about 1950s there weren't many crime statistics around, yet many white people harbored an irrational fear of blacks even though we were only 9-10% of the population then. All black men were though to be criminals and to want to rape white women, this was the cause of many riots across the southern states where most black people lived at the time. Many black people were rounded up and on the word of any white person were charged with crimes and had to serve life sentences in prisons and chain gangs, black children as young as 7 and 8 years old had this done to them. There was nothing that proved that black people committed more crime back then and I highly doubt that the deaths of black people at the hands of white racist terrorists during that time were even reported. I don't think that much has changed in a hundred years in regards to crime statistics and in that respect, I do not trust them to be much of an indicator of anything except now some people can use them as "proof" of black criminality. I don't think that is true. And there are other categories where white people lead on in FBI statistics, yet people don't associate white with criminality, not even pedophilia in a way - maybe white male priests are more thought of as pedophiles, but on the whole, white men are not perceived to be this way. Since the end of slavery and even during, black people have been associated with negative criminality and IMO we always will no matter what statistics say. Crime has fallen in major metropolitan areas with significant black populations for many years. Even top murder areas like DC, St. Louis, NOLA, Atlanta, and other areas, but you rarely hear "wow! they must be really working to stop violence in their neighborhoods in those cities!" Never do I hear things like this just "you should stop being thugs." So no matter what your statistics say, most people will still retain an unnatural fear of black people and especially black men because historically they have been the image of the criminal.
And regardless of what you think, many black people fear being killed and especially beaten or detained by police due to being black. It is a huge fear I have for my own son, who is 10 years old and tall for his age. People will not see him as the sweet boy he is, who I and people who know him view him as. They will see him as a thug because he wears jeans, a t-shirt, nikes, and is a black boy. I don't like it but it is true and I fear for him as a result. I can keep him from being a thug - raise him right, love him, educate him, but I cannot stop people from being afraid of him due to his being a black male so for people like me - middle income black people who do not associate with thugs and who, like every normal American values family, education, and being contributing members to society, the only thing that I truly worry about him out in society is that some police officer especially will think he is a criminal and beat him up and arrest him for no reason or that someone will accuse him of doing a crime and authorities will believe that someone over my son just because he is a black boy and they automatically see him as a thug. It is a scary thing for black families.
And regardless of what you think, many black people fear being killed and especially beaten or detained by police due to being black. It is a huge fear I have for my own son, who is 10 years old and tall for his age. People will not see him as the sweet boy he is, who I and people who know him view him as. They will see him as a thug because he wears jeans, a t-shirt, nikes, and is a black boy. I don't like it but it is true and I fear for him as a result. I can keep him from being a thug - raise him right, love him, educate him, but I cannot stop people from being afraid of him due to his being a black male so for people like me - middle income black people who do not associate with thugs and who, like every normal American values family, education, and being contributing members to society, the only thing that I truly worry about him out in society is that some police officer especially will think he is a criminal and beat him up and arrest him for no reason or that someone will accuse him of doing a crime and authorities will believe that someone over my son just because he is a black boy and they automatically see him as a thug. It is a scary thing for black families.
You bring up an excellent point, and it reinforces my own. The black community has a real fear of police, and it is often justified. That fear of police that the black community has, especially among young black men, is basically the same type of fear that a lot of whites have toward young black men. Perceptions plays a significant role in how people interact, whether it is justified or not. Just like police beating a unarmed young black male sends fear and outrage through the black community, the beating of a white male by a group of black teens has the same impact on the white community.
It's also interesting though that as a white person my view of police is not very different than your own. While there are good cops, there seems to be a lot more bad ones of late and it is getting worse. Look recent incidents in California. The white homeless guy beaten to death by a group of white officers. A white guy sitting on his back porch is shot by two white officers. In Minnesota, an unarmed white guy wearing only a bathing suit it shot six times at point blank range by a white off duty cop. These types of incidents should give every person a reason to fear the police.
I don't care for al sharp ton but this needs to blow up so black men can see what their up against, maybe they'll find new targets instead of killing each other?
The guy is up on 2nd degree murder charges and has been denied bond.
So at this point, I'm a little appalled by your racist statement.
You are saying that because some (white) idiot killed a black person, which is a general rarity since 90% of black murders are committed by blacks, that black men need to start targeting whites for killing.
Wow. You are basically calling for a race war because this idiot had white skin. WTF?
No, it's because crime statistics don't lie. Don't want an entire sub group of your race looked upon as thugs? Then stop acting like thugs in at such a incredible rate. Simple as that. Oh, and this is not a racist American thing. Travel to just about any non-black majority country and you will encounter the same exact attitude.
You bring up an excellent point, and it reinforces my own. The black community has a real fear of police, and it is often justified. That fear of police that the black community has, especially among young black men, is basically the same type of fear that a lot of whites have toward young black men. Perceptions plays a significant role in how people interact, whether it is justified or not. Just like police beating a unarmed young black male sends fear and outrage through the black community, the beating of a white male by a group of black teens has the same impact on the white community.
It's also interesting though that as a white person my view of police is not very different than your own. While there are good cops, there seems to be a lot more bad ones of late and it is getting worse. Look recent incidents in California. The white homeless guy beaten to death by a group of white officers. A white guy sitting on his back porch is shot by two white officers. In Minnesota, an unarmed white guy wearing only a bathing suit it shot six times at point blank range by a white off duty cop. These types of incidents should give every person a reason to fear the police.
It is not the same. Police officers are a government authority figure, they are who you call, as a white man, when you are afraid of black youths. A black person being the victim of police brutality has no one to turn to but the court system which has been shown to discriminate against black people on a wide scale, treating us much harshly than white or hispanic defendants. So it is not the same. You can call the police, they will come to your aid and help you with anyone who tries to beat you up or with any dispute you have. They will also be more likely to believe you if you are in a dispute with black people, than the other way around.
That said, I am not afraid of police officers. I know that in general in our country, all people, potentially have a crazy fear of black people. I have told my son if he is involved with the police that he should let them do whatever they want to do, if they want to arrest him, he should let them, not show any force, not give any backtalk. That is because any sort of "what's going on officer" will be more likely to be used as evidence of my son's "thuggery" than it would be from a white person of similar age and size who decides to have an attitude problem. I can file a report or sue the police/city (which I have done over smaller, not violent things in regards to my local department and won). I know my rights, but I also know that they will not treat my son the same way as a boy of another hue and I worry about that. I also worry that some random nutjob will think he is a threat to him and do something like what was done to the boy who was killed in the OP article. You can see evidence on this very thread, crazy people referring to this boy as a thug just because he was listening to rap music and was black. Plenty of white boys listen to rap music and dress in baggy clothes and aren't labeled thugs. More often than not, the crazy nutjob will just call the police, and in turn, officers will more than likely believe the nutjob over the black boys and cause the boys to be subjected to the criminal justice system. A very small percentage of the time, will the nutjob actually do bodily harm, usually they are too afraid of the perceived threat to do anything other than call police, but sometimes they are armed and puffed up and want to teach the "thugs" a lesson, like the guy involved in this incident. So I see the fear going hand in hand with police brutality, either the police will do it on at the request of the nutjob or the nutjob will do something himself.
Like I said though, I am not afraid of police officers. I am very respectful to them but I will tell them even, in a nice way, when they are being unprofessional. I will also get their information and report them. I live in a poorer neighborhood even though I could afford to live somewhere else. Due to past crime issues that took place in my neighborhood and still take place on a smaller level, we have a pretty large police presence. I know most of the officers as I introduce myself and let them know where I live. I even have the personal cell numbers of many of them. I have an uncle and a couple cousins who are police officers and so I am not afraid of them personally at all. I am just afraid for younger people, especially young boys full of puberty driven testoterone who have macho, defensive, normal teenage attitudes, who may be seen as criminals when they are not just because they like a certain type of music or wear jeans and t-shirts and sneakers and because they are black.
On the whole, I think you and others who are afraid of black youths based on statistics do so because you want someone to be afraid of. I'm sure due to this discussion someone will bring up Jesse Jackson's quote of his fear of black youths as well. I am not afraid of black boys. I have 4 brothers and 9 nephews ranging in age from 7 to 38. They vary in profession, education, and many other ways, but they are all good guys at the core, all of them are funny, smart guys. When I see black boys, I think of my 15 year old nephew or my 18 year old cousin I used to babysit, both of whome dress in common street attire (baggy jeans, sneakers, t-shirts/hoodies) who like to walk around with their friends and joke around, but who also get good grades, have jobs, and love their families and who still act like little boys when they want you to buy them something. Most of the time, I talk to groups of black boys, even ones who do things that would maybe make you afraid. For instance at the park I go to sometimes with my two kids, a group of teen boys comes up and runs through the playground and climbs all over the place and "play fights" and shadow boxes each other. I will talk to them, ask them what school they go to, ask them to look out for the little ones, I have never run into a scary one. Sometimes they will roll their eyes at me or leave but most stick around and just goof off like teen boys do. I don't want to be afraid of them so I am not. In general I am mistrustful of practically everyone when it comes to crime and being on guard for myself and my kids while out in public and at home. I don't fear one group more than the other. I even don't expect police to be unprofessional, I expect them to be good cops until they show me they are not. That is just how I am. I expect people to be normal until they prove they are abnormal. The same is not done for black males in our country and this is because you chose to see them as abnormal in comparison to other groups.
ETA: In regards to police brutality. It occurs everyday on a wide scale. The same is not true for groups of black youths beating up white people. Black people mostly beat up on black people not whites.
Last edited by residinghere2007; 11-29-2012 at 12:04 PM..
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You are basically calling for a race war because this idiot had white skin. WTF?
