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No what conservatives hate are people who ASSUME to know how I think or what I feel. Who ASSUME to know what is best for me, or anybody else for that matter, because to them, I don't count. I also hate snakes, but do I hate ALL reptiles? I hate broccoli but do I hate all vegetables? I don't hate all Democrats nor Liberal's, but because I'm fiscally conservative I'm not given the same consideration, right?
Anyone claiming the mantel of fiscal conservative really doesn't understand the history of the people who claim that title.
Near as I can tell anyone since President Reagan who has claimed that title, spends like a drunken sailor on the military, wants low tax rates on the wealthy and to starve programs aimed at the poor.
That is not being fiscally conservative. Its favoring low taxes on wealthy people, high military spending, and hurting the poor.
The rest of your post is irrelevant.
Conservatives are exactly as I describe them. They love big government, use big government. What conservatives hate are those government programs that they perceive to be going to those other people.
This is what animates conservatives, the makers vs the takers.
Do they accept government scholarships, financial aid, etc, or turn such offers down? Just wondering if they practice what they preach when it comes to "handouts and freeloading off the government?
Are there any Republicans out there that turned down such monies for either themselves, or their children?
I never have or anyone i my falily. but if its the rules by law then I see no reaso anyone wouldn't be doig it altho they may not think it a wise poicy.I other wrods you play by the rule as they are altho you may thing the rules are wrong.
Anyone claiming the mantel of fiscal conservative really doesn't understand the history of the people who claim that title.
Near as I can tell anyone since President Reagan who has claimed that title, spends like a drunken sailor on the military, wants low tax rates on the wealthy and to starve programs aimed at the poor.
That is not being fiscally conservative. Its favoring low taxes on wealthy people, high military spending, and hurting the poor.
The rest of your post is irrelevant.
Conservatives are exactly as I describe them. They love big government, use big government. What conservatives hate are those government programs that they perceive to be going to those other people.
This is what animates conservatives, the makers vs the takers.
Well stated.
Bigger government and personal liberty intrusions are monikers of the Republican Party; contrary to their written platform and talking points.
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,997 posts, read 4,141,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights
I guess in that sense you are correct. I don't know about other people, but when I take on an obligation I expect to fulfill my end of the deal. Can't speak for other people. I never looked at student aid loans as a handout, but I guess for the Occupy type crowd they could turn into handouts.
This right here is what it ALL comes down to. Responsibility. Who is ultimately responsible for paying for the cost of education? Our government who insured the loans? Nope! The Bank for making the loan? Nope! They were told to make the loans. The students... Bingo! We have a winner! The problem there is kind of two-fold too. A lot of student loans are made by kids, KIDS, who know nothing about lending to begin with. And I don't know about everyone, but WE (his father and I) had to co-sign for our son to get the 2 small loans he had to have. So even if he didn't pay... we would have to. Once again, middle class folks who couldn't afford college, yet HAD to sign the dotted line so our son could go to school, yet so many are now going to default and my tax dollars will in fact most likely pay for someone else's education as well. When we are talking about all things being fair.... Is that fair?
I make a distinction between republicans and conservatives. The republican party was as instrumental in creating those programs and handouts as the Democratic party.
Now conservatives mostly opposed those handouts at the time they were being created.
Once many of those handouts were created, of course conservatives came to use them as well.
The difference is that conservatives then label those handouts that people like them use a good governance or not really a handout.
They whine against those handouts that they perceive to be going to those other people.
What animates conservatives is not big government programs. Conservatives love big government programs, no what conservatives hate are those government handouts that they perceive to be going to those other people.
I'm a fiscal conservative, social liberal and you have it all wrong.
I have zero problem with programs that have a clear social benefit. Look at school lunch aid for poor families, it does society no good to have stunted, unhealthy kids with poor educations. You want them to contribute to society and not be a burden so a couple hundred bucks spent now is the ounce of prevention rather than thousands spent later in lost productivity, incarceration etc.
Social Security is another mechanism I generally support as it's mandatory social insurance which if you stop and study it makes people be responsible to a certain extent and not fully burden society by not saving at all for retirement, life insurance and so forth. Now the medicare portion of it needs reforming but thats another kettle of fish.
Where I have a problem is when you have programs that are inefficient or that incent behaviors that do NOT help society down the road. There is a lot of disability fraud, there are people (like my cousin) that milk the system over and over and over so they can generally not work and do drugs and so forth.
In short, you cannot just label all government programs as equal. For example, you PAY for social security....it is not a free benefit. Calling someone a hypocrite for collecting on something they paid for but complaining about others getting a benefit that they did not contribute to is intellectual bankruptcy.
Bigger government and personal liberty intrusions are monikers of the Republican Party; contrary to their written platform and talking points.
Conservatives are big time liars. I don't know how else to reconcile their stated policy preferences with how they govern and how they talk about the rest of this nation.
They claim to love limited government and freedom and all of that, but when they are in charge, the only things legislatively that they seem pursue is tax cuts for wealthy people, anti-abortion bills, conceal carry gun laws, anti-immigration bills, anti-science school bills about evolution, weird birther bills, anti-voting bills, etc.
None of their legislative record has anything to do with freedom as I understand it or limited government. Yet they keep lying and saying this is what they are about.
Then you get the utter contempt that conservative legislators and voters feel towards millions and millions of other Americans. They are going around talking about makers and takers. They are going around right now saying these things as the reason Mitt Rmoney lost.
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,997 posts, read 4,141,865 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73
Anyone claiming the mantel of fiscal conservative really doesn't understand the history of the people who claim that title.
Near as I can tell anyone since President Reagan who has claimed that title, spends like a drunken sailor on the military, wants low tax rates on the wealthy and to starve programs aimed at the poor.
That is not being fiscally conservative. Its favoring low taxes on wealthy people, high military spending, and hurting the poor.
The rest of your post is irrelevant.
Conservatives are exactly as I describe them. They love big government, use big government. What conservatives hate are those government programs that they perceive to be going to those other people.
This is what animates conservatives, the makers vs the takers.
I'm sorry but you are mistaken. Not all conservatives are Republican. I don't agree with a lot out of either party. Being fiscally conservative to me means, exactly that. I do NOT believe in spending for anything that we can't pay for. Be it war, big business, welfare, etc. What I would like to see more than anything is a BALANCED budget. I'm expected to plan my household budget according to certain obligations and needs. These need to be taken care of first. I think defense of our country comes first, and the obligations such as Social Security for our elderly, and then things like our disabled and those most needy. What I find atrocious is that Liberals assume that I have no compassion nor charity in my heart because I believe that being concerned about how to pay for things is my first priority. You prove my point by being oh so concerned about the poor or down-trodden yet you have not the first ounce of kindness to someone who just doesn't see your point of view. It is hypocrisy at it's worst......
Bigger government and personal liberty intrusions are monikers of the Republican Party; contrary to their written platform and talking points.
Agreed. Bush I was the only fiscal conservative in my lifetime and he got 1-termed by the ignorant masses for cutting spending and raising taxes.
Then Clinton fired up the old bubble economy (preceded by Reagans major govt. "stimulus) and Bush II piled on and then Obama got caught with the fallout.
Now if we can just get you guys to turn your insights upon what the democrats do while saying the opposite.
Agreed. Bush I was the only fiscal conservative in my lifetime and he got 1-termed by the ignorant masses for cutting spending and raising taxes.
Then Clinton fired up the old bubble economy (preceded by Reagans major govt. "stimulus) and Bush II piled on and then Obama got caught with the fallout.
Now if we can just get you guys to turn your insights upon what the democrats do while saying the opposite.
I'm a fiscal conservative, social liberal and you have it all wrong.
I have zero problem with programs that have a clear social benefit. Look at school lunch aid for poor families, it does society no good to have stunted, unhealthy kids with poor educations. You want them to contribute to society and not be a burden so a couple hundred bucks spent now is the ounce of prevention rather than thousands spent later in lost productivity, incarceration etc.
Social Security is another mechanism I generally support as it's mandatory social insurance which if you stop and study it makes people be responsible to a certain extent and not fully burden society by not saving at all for retirement, life insurance and so forth. Now the medicare portion of it needs reforming but thats another kettle of fish.
Where I have a problem is when you have programs that are inefficient or that incent behaviors that do NOT help society down the road. There is a lot of disability fraud, there are people (like my cousin) that milk the system over and over and over so they can generally not work and do drugs and so forth.
In short, you cannot just label all government programs as equal. For example, you PAY for social security....it is not a free benefit. Calling someone a hypocrite for collecting on something they paid for but complaining about others getting a benefit that they did not contribute to is intellectual bankruptcy.
The term fiscal conservative doesn't mean being fiscally conservative. This is another lie that conservatives tell. So called fiscal conservatives are mostly interested in cutting taxes for wealthy people. They are in favor of huge spending on the military and they are interested in cutting programs they perceive to help the poor.
Please show me the so called fiscally conservative elected politician who has actually voted for increased revenue/taxes.
The ole poor people are fraudsters ripping off the system conservative lie. I don't even entertain conspiracy theories or anecdotal tales about my cousin or my friend or some woman some conservative saw in the store one day.
The reality is if there is so called fraud, then it is on the conservatives in government to show it and not just insist that it' happening just because it makes their anti-poor people rants seem more reasonable.
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