Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Im trying to say that, but im also trying to prove the point that when people try to use things such as the constitution for complaining about [1] gun control and [2] corporate regulation (2things we need more of).
[1] Do disarmed people enjoy more or less safety?
Think before you answer.
Disarming / controlling the "law abiding" has zero affect on those whose intentions are to do harm.
[2] Corporate regulation is a smokescreen.
The law is quite clear : do deliberate injury - suffer punishment; do accidental injury - pay damages.
What the REAL problem is - is limited liability.
Eliminate limited liability for the actions of a corporation (aggregate body of investors, employees, officers, etc) and you eliminate the need for regulations.
As to the question : SHOULD we build a high speed rail network?
My answer is NO.
We need a moderate and low speed electric powered rail network FIRST, to handle those who will be transitioning from ever more expensive automobiles, etc.
We need a common standard of rail gauges and related technical specs, so we don't suffer the fractured situation of the past where conflicts with mainline rail companies discouraged local transit from cooperation (differing gauges, and standards).
(Also see the history of NYC's metro, made from three different companies with different car dimensions, etc, etc.)
Supporting HSR without first (re)building the mass transit rail infrastructure is ludicrous.
Unless you have some documentation for your claims, I'm going to have to disagree, there was tremendous government aid provided for the Union Pacific railway. The Pacific Railway Acts provided for the bond and land grants needed.
The Union Pacific was launched by a consortium of what passed for venture capitalists of the day, including Charles Francis Adams (of Presidential ancestry) and the Ames family, who made much of their fortune in the manufacture of shovels and other tools -- also several Civil War generals includng Grant, Sherman, and particularly -- Omaha's Grenville Dodge.
The Central Pacific was the creation of California's often-villified "Big Four" (Huntington, Crocker, Hopkins and Stanford), and was developing on its own in Central California before being drawn into the government-initiated Pacific Railroad project. Its backers would not have participated on their own since at the time, the terrirtory between Sacramento and Ogden contained only sagebrush and rattlesnakes.
The project itself was tarnished by what became known as the Credit Mobilier scandal -- involving the payment of exorbitant "sweetheart" prices to construction companies run by the Ames brothers and other insiders. And the nature of the technology itself was such that the thin construction of the original UP has had to be rebuilt, relocated and improved many times over, including a complete bankruptcy and reorganization in the early years of the Twentieth Century. But contrary to popular myth, land grants were never the linchpin of the project.
Last edited by buzzards27; 12-10-2012 at 08:07 AM..
This entire post contradicts yourself, you are for local rail to reduce dependency on foreign oil but against HSR because you think it is "shiny Lionel sets" that only "young and impressionable groups" want and that it goes with the "progressive agenda."
Hate to break it to you, but both local, regional, and long distance rail is apart of the "progressive agenda" because we support the idea of decreasing our dependency on foreign oil, something you seem unwilling to fully commit to.
But I do agree with your first part, I think every city in the country should have a strong local rail, whether it be subway, elevated rail, light rail, or streetcar. But then I think each metro within a region should be connected via HSR to make access much easier without the use of cars to get from city center to city center.
the problem is the HIGH SPEED to begin with
the REQUIRED track maintence and standards would not be adheared to here
over the years, I have worked as a certified track inspector...we cant even keep up with standard track maintenance for the slow movers, do you really expect them to do it for HSR
I can walk a 1 mile length of track TODAY in any area of the country and show you thousands of ties that need replacement, areas out of guage, sections where spikes are missing....of course the pro-HSR people wont admit that
just look at all the interstate bridges that FAIL standards, but are still operating (even though they are dangerous)...why just because the GOVERNMENT doesnt fund them to be replaced/repaired
even look at the HSR 'plan'
do they show pull offs...do they show passing tracks...we are talking about HIGH SPEED..meaning little to no room for errors...to include TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT
Last edited by workingclasshero; 12-10-2012 at 08:33 AM..
we cant even keep up with standard track maintenance
I know nothing about this, so fill me in: is this because whichever gov't agency which employees you needs more staff, or is it reluctance by the track owners (private railroad companies?) to pay for the maintenance, or both?
I know nothing about this, so fill me in: is this because whichever gov't agency which employees you needs more staff, or is it reluctance by the track owners (private railroad companies?) to pay for the maintenance, or both?
both
the COST, in not only time(aka man hours)(money) and equipment (also money) is very high
track (even the slow freight, or the standard passenger ) HAS to be kept with in guage ((((The distance between the inside edges of the rails of standard gauge track 4 ft 8½ in.)(on slow freight lines you have about an inch to an inch and a half play (going wider (you CANT go narrower or else the trucks (what a train wheel is called) will ""walk over the track"" (derail))))(on passenger tacks like amtrak the tollerence is even tighter of less than 3/4 inch.....on HSR you HAVE to be exact)( but some play (1/4 inch to 3/8 inch) is needed to prevent binding in curves)
every day tracks get ''beaten-up'' by weather, movement of the earth, viabration of trains running on them, rotting ties, loosening spikes, etc
track maintenance crews (also know as a maintence of way team) have to inspect/ replair/ replace ties, spikes, connector plate, switches, etc....you also have different types of rail (weight of rail) like 70 rail, 90 rail, 110 rail, 150 rail, etc.....maintenance of way is not just track maintenance, but also maintaining the way (clearance) (ie shrubery that gets too close to the track)
also the radias of turns has to be considered, long passenger cars can not make a small radias'...then you alow have your switches (normally a straight with a curve turn off) rail experts need to know the differnece between a #4 switch, a #7 switch, and a #9 switch
one of the big ticket items that helps track maintence is The Sperry Rail Car, a bright yellow vehicle fitted with ultrasonic and induction test equipment, is designed to detect internal rail defects not readily visible to the human eye. Defects that are found can then be immediately by a crew of track maintenance personnel
Last edited by workingclasshero; 12-10-2012 at 09:21 AM..
To paraphrase Meat Loaf, 1 out of 4 ain't bad. And while the military is effective I'm sure there is waste.
The first three agencies are functionally broke and even the GAO says they are broken operationally.
Actually, all are doing fine. Other than congress interfering with the operation of the post office and using the trust fund money of the others. Congress controls the purse strings, interfere with effective operations and fails to act on any meaningful financial reforms.
Example, the GOP congress is forcing the post office out of business. They require the post office to fund retiree benefits 75 years into the future. Something no other entity public or private is required to do. And they are preventing the post office frim raising rates to cover the GOP congress imposed financial burden.
One or two minor fixes adds decades to the SS and Medicare programs, failing to act only make the problem greater and the fix bigger in the future. Simple math, invest a dime now is equal to investing a dollar ten years from now.
Operational all three of the programs you chose to malign are well run, frugal operations, with extremely low "overhead" costs. A higher percentage of their budgets go to beneficiaries than similar privately run "for profit" businesses.
I thought the shape of the horizontal surface of the wheel controlled the travel of the wheel on the rail, not the flange of the wheels. That the Flanges of the wheel rarely if ever touch the rails.
Tell me, do you know how HSR affects frog angles and curves radii?
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero
both
the COST, in not only time(aka man hours)(money) and equipment (also money) is very high
track (even the slow freight, or the standard passenger ) HAS to be kept with in guage ((((The distance between the inside edges of the rails of standard gauge track 4 ft 8½ in.)(on slow freight lines you have about an inch to an inch and a half play (going wider (you CANT go narrower or else the trucks (what a train wheel is called) will ""walk over the track"" (derail))))(on passenger tacks like amtrak the tollerence is even tighter of less than 3/4 inch.....on HSR you HAVE to be exact)( but some play (1/4 inch to 3/8 inch) is needed to prevent binding in curves)
every day tracks get ''beaten-up'' by weather, movement of the earth, viabration of trains running on them, rotting ties, loosening spikes, etc
track maintenance crews (also know as a maintence of way team) have to inspect/ replair/ replace ties, spikes, connector plate, switches, etc....you also have different types of rail (weight of rail) like 70 rail, 90 rail, 110 rail, 150 rail, etc
also the radias of turns has to be considered, long passenger cars can not make a small radias'...then you alow have your switches (normally a straight with a curve turn off) rail experts need to know the differnece between a #4 switch, a #7 switch, and a #9 switch
one of the big ticket items that helps track maintence is The Sperry Rail Car, a bright yellow vehicle fitted with ultrasonic and induction test equipment, is designed to detect internal rail defects not readily visible to the human eye. Defects that are found can then be immediately by a crew of track maintenance personnel
I thought the shape of the horizontal surface of the wheel controlled the travel of the wheel on the rail, not the flange of the wheels. That the Flanges of the wheel rarely if ever touch the rails.
Tell me, do you know how HSR affects frog angles and curves radii?
not sure what effect/affect frog angles will have with HSR...but I do understand that anything with HIGH SPEED will have to be within much tighter tolerances...I do understand that track maintenance is costly, and in general not being done well enough...its one thing for a CSX slow moving freight train to ru n over a loose track or some bad ties...it would be totally another thing for a HIGH SPEED train to end up derailing because of loose rail or bad/rotten ties
at least you understand what a frog is...some people dont even know the term
Last edited by workingclasshero; 12-10-2012 at 11:02 AM..
Reason: my typing...had poeple instead of people
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
