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View Poll Results: Should we build the HSR network
Yes 192 60.57%
No 125 39.43%
Voters: 317. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-18-2012, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Florida and the Rockies
1,970 posts, read 2,236,076 times
Reputation: 3323

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
All forms of transportation should be funded by the users of those services including roads, rails and airports.
And they do now:

National roads (US highways and Interstate Highways) are funded by the federal excise tax on gasoline (although some of the revenue is diverted to other uses, each state is permitted to divert some of the money, and I believe some of this supports transit). Local roads are funded at the state and town levels.

Railroads are funded by their private revenue

Airports and the FAA are funded by the taxes on air tickets plus money raised by the airport authorities. Until the TSA was created in 2001, the system usually ended up in the black.

The big exceptions to these norms are Amtrak and the TSA, both of which could vanish without the notice of about 80% of the US population.

The system we have now is mostly a market-based system; it works well (and I repeat, I am a heavy user, with 150,000 air miles and 30,000 road miles this year); and it's relatively cheap (compare the costs of operating a car in France with one in Texas, for example.)

Any politician that tries to screw with the existing transportation system in any significant way will be an ex-politician very quickly.

 
Old 12-18-2012, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,818,277 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
For example, only 60% of gas taxes go to fund roads. The rest goes to a variety of things such as mass transit, parks, etc.
Why should gas tax only fund more infrastructure that requires more gas? That is like taxing cigarettes to maintain and open more cigarette selling outlets.
 
Old 12-18-2012, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Florida and the Rockies
1,970 posts, read 2,236,076 times
Reputation: 3323
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
Apparaently, we do have a couple of participants here who know a thing or two about trackwork, or dispatching, or a little of both. That is a refreshing change from too many forums where either the NIMBYs, dreamers, or what rail buffs refer to as "foamers" try to dominate.

It hasn't been brought out here (as yet) that the ability of freight and passengers to share track capacity is not what it once was...
And we have much, much less track mileage than 100 years ago. Even since the 1970s nationalization of passenger rail service, the total track mileage in the US has dropped considerably.

The railroads do not want to pay to maintain unused track, very simply put.

But to be fair to the pro-HSR participants, they are advocating completely separate (and brand new) rights-of-way.
 
Old 12-18-2012, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,740,494 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Why should gas tax only fund more infrastructure that requires more gas? That is like taxing cigarettes to maintain and open more cigarette selling outlets.
Gas is good. Cars are good. Fast cars are even better. Long live fast cars with big powerful engines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Old 12-18-2012, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,740,494 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by westender View Post
And they do now:

National roads (US highways and Interstate Highways) are funded by the federal excise tax on gasoline (although some of the revenue is diverted to other uses, each state is permitted to divert some of the money, and I believe some of this supports transit). Local roads are funded at the state and town levels.

Railroads are funded by their private revenue

.

Mass transit is not funded by riders. It's hugely subsidized by everyone.
 
Old 12-18-2012, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,818,277 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Gas is good. Cars are good. Fast cars are even better. Long live fast cars with big powerful engines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Those slogans were amusing 10-12 years ago. Now, they are signs of desperation.
 
Old 12-18-2012, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,740,494 times
Reputation: 9325
Something to think about;

A 2004 study from Lancaster University concluded that there was no environmental benefit to be gained from persuading car or plane travelers to switch to trains. Environmental group Friends of the Earth were skeptical of the findings, claiming the results are not in line with previous studies. The study showed that trains had failed to keep up with the advances that the automotive and aviation industries had made in improved fuel efficiency. Express trains travelling from London to Edinburgh consumed 11.5 litres more fuel per seat than a modern diesel car and Pendolino trains weigh more per seat than the Airbus A380 airliner. A representative from Modern Railways magazine is reported as having said:
"I know this will generate howls of protest, but at present a family of four going by car is about as environmentally friendly as you can get."


Public transport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 12-18-2012, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,818,277 times
Reputation: 12341
London Heathrow to Paddington... in 15 minutes, pretty much guaranteed versus about an hour in car (no guarantees). I know what I prefer... every time. Although, that gives me very little time to have my coffee and be online responding to C-D threads while cruising at 100 mph.
 
Old 12-18-2012, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Richmond/Philadelphia/Brooklyn
1,264 posts, read 1,552,348 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Gas is good. Cars are good. Fast cars are even better. Long live fast cars with big powerful engines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Short live the ozone!!!!! LONG LIVE SPRAWL
 
Old 12-18-2012, 04:11 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,288 posts, read 87,420,711 times
Reputation: 55562
i guess the burning question is not should we build it but with what money will we pay for it.
btw japan and mexico depend heavily on buses, 1/3 the fare u would pay on the train. the setup fee and maintenance of bus routes and subcontracted staff is a fraction of that of rail.
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