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Got damnit man will you idiots stop making the same dumb point that I have already dealt with in subsequent posts.
You aren't dealing with it at all, in fact your posts would be much easier to make if you'd just type "I clueless about finance" and be done with it.
What you are missing is that 401k participants aren't getting free money. They can't touch it until they take it out, at which point it is taxed as income. Government isn't subsidizing anything if I have a choice of paying income tax on 17k now or in 2035. Its all paying tax on income.
In other words, while my taxable income is lowered by paying into a 401k plan, there taxable income ISNOT because they work for an employer that doesn't offer a 410k plan.
If your employer doesn't offer a 401k you can (in most cases) open and contribute to an IRA for tax deferred savings. Sure the limits are a bit lower, but from what I've seen of average 401k balances people having a problem with wanting to put too much in is far and away the exception.
You aren't dealing with it at all, in facts your posts would be much easier to make if you'd just type "I clueless about finance" and be done with it.
What you are missing is that 401k participants aren't getting free money. They can't touch it until they take it out, at which point it is taxed as income. Government isn't subsidizing anything if I have a choice of paying income tax on 17k now or in 2035. Its all paying tax on income.
They are getting free money. What about the Millions of Americans who work but their employers don't offer 401k plans?
Are their retirement savings going to be taxed at a lower rate because they didn't get to participate in a 401k?
ANd before you say well they can save in an IRA, yes but so can those who have 401k plans.
The bottomline is that some Americans are essentially having their retirement plans subsidized by the government getting checks mailed to their homes while millions upon millions of their fellow citizens don't get the privilege.
This is the definition of a handout. This is the definition of free money. This is the definition of a government program.
I know it hurts because so many idiots fashion themselves rugged individualists who don't use government programs.
But the 410k plan is a government program that subsidizes the retirement of higher income Americans while millions upon millions of other working Americans don't get the same benefit, don't get the same tax savings on the front end and their retirement income doesn't get treated more favorably when they retire because they didn't get that government giveaway.
If your employer doesn't offer a 401k you can (in most cases) open and contribute to an IRA for tax deferred savings. Sure the limits are a bit lower, but from what I've seen of average 401k balances people having a problem with wanting to put too much in is far and away the exception.
You idiots always bring this up without mentioning that those who have 401k plans can and do participate in the IRA plans as well.
I have a 401k plan and a roth IRA and so does my wife.
The REALITY is that some Americans are having their retirement saving subsidized in a manner not open to millions upon millions of workers.
They don't get the handout on the front end of retirement savings and their retirement income isn't taxed less because of it.
While you and I and millions of other people get basically a check mailed to us every year until 30 years from now, that is a HUGE advantage.
This is the definition of a government handout. Please deal with reality.
they are getting free money. What about the millions of americans who work but their employers don't offer 401k plans?
Are their retirement savings going to be taxed at a lower rate because they didn't get to participate in a 401k?
And before you say well they can save in an ira, yes but so can those who have 401k plans.
The bottomline is that some americans are essentially having their retirement plans subsidized by the government getting checks mailed to their homes while millions upon millions of their fellow citizens don't get the privilege.
This is the definition of a handout. This is the definition of free money. This is the definition of a government program.
I know it hurts because so many idiots fashion themselves rugged individualists who don't use government programs.
But the 410k plan is a government program that subsidizes the retirement of higher income americans while millions upon millions of other working americans don't get the same benefit, don't get the same tax savings on the front end and their retirement income doesn't get treated more favorably when they retire because they didn't get that government giveaway.
They are getting free money. What about the Millions of Americans who work but their employers don't offer 401k plans?
Are their retirement savings going to be taxed at a lower rate because they didn't get to participate in a 401k?
As a matter of fact no. We don't know what their marginal tax rate with be when they withdraw it, so whether what they would have taken out will be taxed higher or lower is guesswork.
Quote:
The bottomline is that some Americans are essentially having their retirement plans subsidized by the government getting checks mailed to their homes while millions upon millions of their fellow citizens don't get the privilege.
This is the definition of a handout. This is the definition of free money. This is the definition of a government program.
No, this is the definition of someone who despite all their bluster doesn't grasp what deferred taxation is, as opposed to no taxation.
Quote:
don't get the same tax savings on the front end and their retirement income doesn't get treated more favorably when they retire because they didn't get that government giveaway.
False premise leads to foolish conclusion. There is no government give-away.
Tell me this, what percentage of people who aren't in jobs that offer 401ks are somehow hindered by the limits of the IRA account for tax deferred savings that they could open? I'd submit very very few of them even open an IRA if eligible, so you are basically doing a lot of barking at a non-issue.
So There Are Rumors The Govt Plans to Seize Your 401k
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
It's the secret scuttlebutt in Washington: plans in DC to seize the trillions in retirement accounts to shore up Social Security, Medicare and other foundering programs that make up the 16 trillion dollar national debt. And with roughly 16 trillion dollars sitting in private retirement accounts right now, turning it all over to the federal govt to manage seems like the ideal ticket to solving our fiscal problems.
I have no issues with govt seizing the accounts. They have to get then money somewhere and 401k's seem as good a source as any, given the staggering amount of money being held in them and the staggering debt we have to find a way to deal with.
What I'd like to know and what I cannot find out by researching on the Internet is whether this means that the plan they are trying to set up to distribute the 401k monies to beneficiaries is a ruse to wipe out the Social Security program and replace it with this new scheme. Anyone have any answer on whether this program is designed to replace SS, or just supplement it?
Have you heard the one about the birth certificate?
The REALITY is that some Americans are having their retirement saving subsidized in a manner not open to millions upon millions of workers.
They don't get the handout on the front end of retirement savings and their retirement income isn't taxed less because of it.
We've already established people can open an IRA to defer taxes at the front end.
Quote:
While you and I and millions of other people get basically a check mailed to us every year until 30 years from now, that is a HUGE advantage.
And you consider to emphasize you aren't bright enough to get your arms around this whole "deferred" thing.
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So There Are Rumors The Govt Plans to Seize Your 401k
