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If my government sends you to war, then I am not gonna argue with you when you come back wanting a job, I am gonna help you find a job. Also the issue isn't about giving them special treatment, it is about eliminating redundancy with the laws. If you are a medic in combat who has pulled bullets out of bodies and stitched guys up, then I think you are qualified to work in a hospital without having to go through excess training for something you have already learned.
That is the real issue that we have here, if you are trained to do something in the military, then that training should be able to transfer to the civilian world, right now that is not the case. If someone in the military wishes to do what they were doing in service in the civilian world, then they will have to go to college and spend their time relearning what they already know, that is a waste of their time and our government money.
I don't see why the gov't has to intervene. If he's qualified, and experienced, he gets the job. You'd have to prove to me that he is being discriminated against and he requires special protection from the gov't above and beyond any other citizen of this country.
A combat medic may be minimally trained for that environment, and not be qualified to enter civilian medical field without more training. That is not discimination, that is opportunity. There are numerous programs, as I said, to help them retrain or hone their skills for civilian life.
We are not free because we have soldiers killing people overseas. We are free because we have a Constitution and Bill of Rights that requires vigilent enforcement by our representatives against enemies within. Those documents tell us we are to be treated equally before the law, no special laws for groups deemed special because we feel sorry for them. ER doctors see horrific things every day, does that mean they should be a protected group in the eyes of the law? I don't think so. How many charities do you know of for ER doctors, or people that man the 911 phone lines or suicide calls. Life is tough, if you don't want the job, don't take it. You don't have to put yourself in harms way. Be a teacher, accountant or philospher, those are pretty safe. It's your choice.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,852 posts, read 10,456,964 times
Reputation: 6670
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailordave
First off, I never said "all" liberals hate the military. There is a segment of the liberal population what does either hate or oppose the US Military. I used the city of Berkeley as one example. The number of public school teachers and college faculty who actively oppose military recruiters and JROTC/ROTC is another example. Why do conservatives feel liberals hate the military? Probably because of decades of opposition from school and university faculty and the behavior of anti-war activist on the street calling the troops "murderers" or "baby-killers". Yep, that just screams love for the troops.
So you think Berkeley is ''representative'' of lib-ruls?! Heck, even libs make fun of ''Berserkley'' (...LOL)!
And BTW, the problem isn't the military, so much as the fact that every mention of the subject always seems to bring out the chickenhawks and wear-it-on-their-sleeve ''uber-patriots'', who assume that everyone has to love their country and the military... exactly the same way they do!
Oh, and the Vietnam war, and the 60's, ended a long time ago...
I don't see why the gov't has to intervene. If he's qualified, and experienced, he gets the job. You'd have to prove to me that he is being discriminated against and he requires special protection from the gov't above and beyond any other citizen of this country.
A combat medic may be minimally trained for that environment, and not be qualified to enter civilian medical field without more training. That is not discimination, that is opportunity. There are numerous programs, as I said, to help them retrain or hone their skills for civilian life.
We are not free because we have soldiers killing people overseas. We are free because we have a Constitution and Bill of Rights that requires vigilent enforcement by our representatives against enemies within. Those documents tell us we are to be treated equally before the law, no special laws for groups deemed special because we feel sorry for them. ER doctors see horrific things every day, does that mean they should be a protected group in the eyes of the law? I don't think so. How many charities do you know of for ER doctors, or people that man the 911 phone lines or suicide calls. Life is tough, if you don't want the job, don't take it. You don't have to put yourself in harms way. Be a teacher, accountant or philospher, those are pretty safe. It's your choice.
At the hospital I worked at in Seattle, we had a half-dozen ER nurses who were guys that were either in the Navy or Army Medical corps. They were hands-down the best guys in triage... every day for a few years, they saw horrific injuries over, and over, and over... after they hired the first couple, who were Navy medics, the hospital's HR person stated that anyone who's resume included military medic service "went straight to the top." I don't know what, if any, certifications they would have had to go through to be licensed by state, but anything they would have been required to do would have been easily taken at a community college and paid for by the GI Bill and, possibly, the college itself as well.
ER docs see horrific things every day and they get paid $150-250k plus per year, and they have top-tier private mental health insurance to get through their toughest times. They don't need charities. Many of the veterans returning from war were getting paid around $20k per year, are now living off of a $400/mo stipend and state disability, come back with intense psychological trauma, and have to wait incomprehensibly long times to get treatment from a flooded and underfunded VA.
Your statement RE: bill of rights/constitution would insinuate that state representatives - many of whom, as illustrated by the tea party sweep, are elected based on emotion and have little to offer in the way of political tact - are on the whole more deserving of the title of "hero" than a twenty-year old soldier who had his or her legs blown off while trying to rescue another injured soldier on a battlefield and now has to live without legs for the rest of their life.
Well, it is a free country and you're entitled to believe what you want.
So you think Berkeley is ''representative'' of lib-ruls?! Heck, even libs make fun of ''Berserkley'' (...LOL)!
And BTW, the problem isn't the military, so much as the fact that every mention of the subject always seems to bring out the chickenhawks and wear-it-on-their-sleeve ''uber-patriots'', who assume that everyone has to love their country and the military... exactly the same way they do!
Oh, and the Vietnam war, and the 60's, ended a long time ago...
Have problems with reading comprehension or did you even bother to read my post or look at the links I posted? No where did I reference the Vietnam war nor did I say Berkeley represented all liberals. Some here said they didn't know of any liberals who hated the military so I posted factual examples of liberals who hate the military. The "baby killer" reference was from an anti-war protest of the war in Iraq. The protestors were in Seattle. Don't believe me, go back and click on the video I linked under this topic.
Oh, and this "chickenhawk" volunteered for the Navy in 1990 and served for 8 years when a shoulder injury caused me to fail the fitness test and so I was forced out. Arrived on my first ship in Bahrain just after a major steam leak killed ten men,...I was one of their replacements. Served in Desert Storm and Bosnia. Tried to re-enlist after 9/11 hoping for a waiver but was denied.
At the hospital I worked at in Seattle, we had a half-dozen ER nurses who were guys that were either in the Navy or Army Medical corps. They were hands-down the best guys in triage... every day for a few years, they saw horrific injuries over, and over, and over... after they hired the first couple, who were Navy medics, the hospital's HR person stated that anyone who's resume included military medic service "went straight to the top." I don't know what, if any, certifications they would have had to go through to be licensed by state, but anything they would have been required to do would have been easily taken at a community college and paid for by the GI Bill and, possibly, the college itself as well.
ER docs see horrific things every day and they get paid $150-250k plus per year, and they have top-tier private mental health insurance to get through their toughest times. They don't need charities. Many of the veterans returning from war were getting paid around $20k per year, are now living off of a $400/mo stipend and state disability, come back with intense psychological trauma, and have to wait incomprehensibly long times to get treatment from a flooded and underfunded VA.
Your statement RE: bill of rights/constitution would insinuate that state representatives - many of whom, as illustrated by the tea party sweep, are elected based on emotion and have little to offer in the way of political tact - are on the whole more deserving of the title of "hero" than a twenty-year old soldier who had his or her legs blown off while trying to rescue another injured soldier on a battlefield and now has to live without legs for the rest of their life.
Well, it is a free country and you're entitled to believe what you want.
If a hospital wants to send them on up to the top, that is their perogative - didn't need gov't to pass a bill to do that. That was my point. They are free to hire who they want.
I find it very hard to believe we are paying soldiers for combat duty a measly 20 thousand a year. You would have to prove that to me. I'm quite sure we pay them better, plus there are many added benefits that would be very expensive for us civilians. Let's say that is true, they applied for the job, did they not? Then there are people like you that view them as heroes, that's worth somethin. I just see them as people that volunteer to be used for the imperalistic goals of the globalists.
Your comment about the tea party is way off base and not a cogent response to what I said. You are very emotional about this topic.
I find it very hard to believe we are paying soldiers for combat duty a measly 20 thousand a year. You would have to prove that to me. I'm quite sure we pay them better, plus there are many added benefits that would be very expensive for us civilians.
Don't know much of what you're talking about, do you?
Base pay for a kid who just came out of boot camp is $17k.
If he hustles and makes E2, it rockets up to $20k.
Quote:
Let's say that is true, they applied for the job, did they not?
Yep.
And let's say that part of the reason they signed up for the job was because the local factories and industry around them has dried up because everything was sent overseas. Their mom and dad (if he's in the picture) lost their jobs when everything dried up, and can't help them with college money or starting capital for their own business or service. The military is their best and perhaps only choice, so they take it.
Quote:
Then there are people like you that view them as heroes, that's worth somethin.
I don't view all of them as heroes; I view them as people who deserve a basic level of respect for having served their country. There's certainly a difference between the scenario I posed (permenantly maimed in combat trying to help others), and say, a recruiter who never went overseas and just sat in a suburban mall trying to convince HALO nerds to join a real army.
Quote:
I just see them as people that volunteer to be used for the imperalistic goals of the globalists.
And that's your perogative. Go on believing it. It's fairly obvious that you've spent little time around people who are in the military or getting to know anything about the sort of lives they live or their personal goals or ideals.
Quote:
Your comment about the tea party is way off base and not a cogent response to what I said. You are very emotional about this topic.
He also ignores the hours one must serve per day, 7 days a week when in combat or at sea when calculating pay and worth. When at sea, we regularly put in a minimum of 18 hour work days in the engine room at over 100 degrees. We slept in a coffin rack on a two inch thick sponge with barely enough room to roll over. Yes, we were given four meals a day when at sea. But how many of you ever ate on a ship. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it was horrible. Ever seen a cooked chicken breast that was grey in color? Ever see a cooked sausage inflate from the melted grease and what little meat was in the casing was floating in the grease? Food poisoning happened too frequently. The best meals were straight from a can or from the MREs. That's why the MREs were locked up. We kept getting our hands on them after seeing what was being served on the mess decks. Also we didn't enjoy the safety regulations of OSHA. We also could not sue the military. Our jobs were very dangerous even when not in combat. Do a google search of "USS Iwo Jima LPH-2 October 1990 steam leak" to see what can happen. I was a replacement for one of the ten killed in the fire room (aka boiler room).
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k
Don't know much of what you're talking about, do you?
Base pay for a kid who just came out of boot camp is $17k.
If he hustles and makes E2, it rockets up to $20k.
Yep.
And let's say that part of the reason they signed up for the job was because the local factories and industry around them has dried up because everything was sent overseas. Their mom and dad (if he's in the picture) lost their jobs when everything dried up, and can't help them with college money or starting capital for their own business or service. The military is their best and perhaps only choice, so they take it.
I don't view all of them as heroes; I view them as people who deserve a basic level of respect for having served their country. There's certainly a difference between the scenario I posed (permenantly maimed in combat trying to help others), and say, a recruiter who never went overseas and just sat in a suburban mall trying to convince HALO nerds to join a real army.
And that's your perogative. Go on believing it. It's fairly obvious that you've spent little time around people who are in the military or getting to know anything about the sort of lives they live or their personal goals or ideals.
Calling the troops baby killers is a form of hatred towards the military. Their chants was against the military, not the war.
It's always personal Dave. They can lie anyway they like. We all know it's not true. They hate everything we stand for. "What do we need all these people and weapons for?" "Why do we need training?" "What's all this gear for?"
He also ignores the hours one must serve per day, 7 days a week when in combat or at sea when calculating pay and worth. When at sea, we regularly put in a minimum of 18 hour work days in the engine room at over 100 degrees. We slept in a coffin rack on a two inch thick sponge with barely enough room to roll over. Yes, we were given four meals a day when at sea. But how many of you ever ate on a ship. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it was horrible. Ever seen a cooked chicken breast that was grey in color? Ever see a cooked sausage inflate from the melted grease and what little meat was in the casing was floating in the grease? Food poisoning happened too frequently. The best meals were straight from a can or from the MREs. That's why the MREs were locked up. We kept getting our hands on them after seeing what was being served on the mess decks. Also we didn't enjoy the safety regulations of OSHA. We also could not sue the military. Our jobs were very dangerous even when not in combat. Do a google search of "USS Iwo Jima LPH-2 October 1990 steam leak" to see what can happen. I was a replacement for one of the ten killed in the fire room (aka boiler room).
I agree...getting the s***s from powdered runny eggs is NO FUN.
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