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Alright, having turned the question over, I think I've got a possibility for a genuinely conservative utopia.
Canada.
A monarchy with an unbroken constitutional tradition which has evolved peacefully and gradually, and an orderly, civil society which has successfully combined principles of egalitarianism and elitism. A country where the economy is dynamic but regulated, often self-regulated, in the interests of social peace and order. It comes closest to Burke's ideal of gradual change while preserving what is tested by time.
12-05-2012, 01:32 PM
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n/a posts
It's telling that we're nearly 40 posts into this and no one has been able to name a single conservative (in the sense of the US right) country that any sane person would choose to live in.
If one is talking social conservatism, then the middle east clearly "wins" that competition. But why would anyone want to live under a cloud of oppression?
If one is talking about economic conservatism, in which we refuse to invest in our own people and our own country, then just look at most of Africa. Again, why would anyone want to live in a place where one is forced to live in fear because the rule of law doesn't apply? Why would anyone want to give up highways and hospitals and clean water and trade them in for dirt roads, mysticism, and sewage running in the streets? In some ways, sub-Saharan Africa is largely what our right wing proposes - violent kleptocracies where a few at the top do extremely well and everyone else lives in poverty and squalor. And as if that isn't enough, many of those countries also offer up a wide range of social oppression, which should make the Christian right happy.
Alright, having turned the question over, I think I've got a possibility for a genuinely conservative utopia.
Canada.
A monarchy with an unbroken constitutional tradition which has evolved peacefully and gradually, and an orderly, civil society which has successfully combined principles of egalitarianism and elitism. A country where the economy is dynamic but regulated, often self-regulated, in the interests of social peace and order. It comes closest to Burke's ideal of gradual change while preserving what is tested by time.
Game attempt, but labeling Canada 'conservative' in US terms is rather a stretch, wouldn't you say?
It's telling that we're nearly 40 posts into this and no one has been able to name a single conservative (in the sense of the US right) country that any sane person would choose to live in.
If one is talking social conservatism, then the middle east clearly "wins" that competition. But why would anyone want to live under a cloud of oppression?
If one is talking about economic conservatism, in which we refuse to invest in our own people and our own country, then just look at most of Africa. Again, why would anyone want to live in a place where one is forced to live in fear because the rule of law doesn't apply? Why would anyone want to give up highways and hospitals and clean water and trade them in for dirt roads, mysticism, and sewage running in the streets? In some ways, sub-Saharan Africa is largely what our right wing proposes - violent kleptocracies where a few at the top do extremely well and everyone else lives in poverty and squalor. And as if that isn't enough, many of those countries also offer up a wide range of social oppression, which should make the Christian right happy.
OK. Now you're changing your parameters because I just offered up a right-wing country, the United States, that I would choose to live. Here are some more conservative countries I'd live in:
Alright, having turned the question over, I think I've got a possibility for a genuinely conservative utopia.
Canada.
A monarchy with an unbroken constitutional tradition which has evolved peacefully and gradually, and an orderly, civil society which has successfully combined principles of egalitarianism and elitism. A country where the economy is dynamic but regulated, often self-regulated, in the interests of social peace and order. It comes closest to Burke's ideal of gradual change while preserving what is tested by time.
Canada was once a great candidate for precisely these reasons. But no more. No western nation can be called "conservative" that wages a war as vicious as Canada has been waging for some time against the family, the unborn, and Christian morality in general.
I don't know of any western nations with genuinely conservative governments anymore. Malta and Liechtenstein are probably the least liberal, but even the good Catholic Prince of Liechtenstein, who heroically threatened to abdicate over the threat to deprive him of veto powers, is a convinced democrat.
Actually, the new Hungarian constitution is very promising. It has infuriated the EU and outraged liberals by explicitly acknowledging the nation's Christian roots, protecting all human life including the unborn, and privileging the natural family. Parents are also allowed to vote on behalf of their underage children, an idea I have long espoused.
I don't know much about Latvia and Lithuania, but these countries have earned the wrath of the EU for their refusals to crack down on "homophobia". So, there are pockets of resistance here and there, but it's all within the paradigm of liberal democracy which is part of the problem.
If one is talking social conservatism, then the middle east clearly "wins" that competition. But why would anyone want to live under a cloud of oppression?
It makes no sense to count Muslim nations as "conservative" in sense that is meaningful to Americans or westerners. Conservatism needs a context. An American who wants to "conserve" sharia, jihad, and Islamist tyranny is hardly a conservative American.
The reason why the US is the world leader is due to our conservative principles, the reason why we may not be is due to our regression towards social principles. The countries you cited such as the Scandinavian have incredibly low immigration and from what I understand, it is very difficult for an immigrant to get a job there. Western Europe is failing quickly. Spain, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Portugal are all in bad shape I don't think either of these can be compared to the US.
But if we continue down this path of social regression, we are doomed to be one of those countries headed for destruction.
Other than the size and cost of the military what exactly is the US a world leader in?
All studies and lists that I have seen on just about any empirical measure you can think of indicate that the US is not #1 and is very often not even in the Top 10. Items like education level, life expectancy, quality of life, etc.
It's telling that we're nearly 40 posts into this and no one has been able to name a single conservative (in the sense of the US right) country that any sane person would choose to live in.
If one is talking social conservatism, then the middle east clearly "wins" that competition. But why would anyone want to live under a cloud of oppression?
If one is talking about economic conservatism, in which we refuse to invest in our own people and our own country, then just look at most of Africa. Again, why would anyone want to live in a place where one is forced to live in fear because the rule of law doesn't apply? Why would anyone want to give up highways and hospitals and clean water and trade them in for dirt roads, mysticism, and sewage running in the streets? In some ways, sub-Saharan Africa is largely what our right wing proposes - violent kleptocracies where a few at the top do extremely well and everyone else lives in poverty and squalor. And as if that isn't enough, many of those countries also offer up a wide range of social oppression, which should make the Christian right happy.
Most social conservatives in the US would point to a country like Saudi Arabia or Iran as a shining beacon of just how good a theocratic dictatorship can be if they were ruled by Christians instead of Muslims. Social conservatives don't object to the way Saudi Arabia operates just the flavor of religious dogma that is used as the basis for oppression.
Game attempt, but labeling Canada 'conservative' in US terms is rather a stretch, wouldn't you say?
I suppose by "US terms" you mean the laissez-faire libertarian liberalism which is the dominant ideology in the Republican Party at the moment; then yes, Canada is nothing close to a laissez-faire liberal utopia, but we're no longer talking about conservatism.
But a laissez-faire utopian state is an oxymoron, since the logical extremity of laissez-faire liberalism is anarcho-capitalism - the existence of no state at all. We can't name it, because if it had a name, it'd be a state, and then it wouldn't be the anarcho-capitalist's paradise. There is no answer to your riddle.
Social conservatives don't object to the way Saudi Arabia operates just the flavor of religious dogma that is used as the basis for oppression.
That's ridiculous and you know it.
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