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Old 12-05-2012, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Los Awesome, CA
8,653 posts, read 5,838,296 times
Reputation: 3368

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Quote:
Originally Posted by things and stuff View Post
If free markets are a conservative principle, then why do conservatives brag about giving select companies subsidies? I realize it's marketed to the general public as economic development but I have a real problem with this.

I've worked very hard at building a small IT consulting firm which specializes in .net applications.

Earlier this year, the state of Louisiana agreed to pay a newly formed company millions of dollars to set up shop here and to compete directly with us.

This company gets free commercial office space in the heart of the downtown business district, gets 25% of EXPENSES reimbursed, and 30% of salary/payroll expenses. Its very demoralizing to know I am forced to pay taxes that are handed over to a competitor.

How can us small businesses possibly compete with that? I was talking to another business owner, who is actually an innovator in our field and they are so disgusted by this that they're going to leave the state.

Even if you believed that it was pure economic development, how do free-market conservatives manage to praise this sort of behavior?
OP, do you have specifics [name of said company, reason for subsidies, sector competitive attributes, etc.]
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,948 posts, read 43,906,055 times
Reputation: 20639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland Woman View Post

What do you call it when cities and states give companies tax free status for 10-15 years to relocate and even have been known to give them free land to build factories on just to get them to come locate in their area? What do you call it when cities and states build roads and sewer and water lines to certain places just to get a business to come in without giving that company an assessment to cover the costs of providing them with that service? I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong to do these things BUT conservatives who say free market should control everything aren't acknowledging that the government helps many so-called free market businesses.
Monsanto ( Koch Bros/ tea party muscle/ Noquist' puppeteer) has benefitted substantially over the years when desparate states, counties and cities redistributed the wealth to attract and retain Monsanto business and jobs.

Monsanto made it clear to their employees during the campaign that if their taxes went up, heads were going to roll.

Follow the money behind the tea party ........
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:55 PM
 
20,376 posts, read 18,325,196 times
Reputation: 8022
Quote:
Originally Posted by things and stuff View Post
If free markets are a conservative principle, then why do conservatives brag about giving select companies subsidies? I realize it's marketed to the general public as economic development but I have a real problem with this.

I've worked very hard at building a small IT consulting firm which specializes in .net applications.

Earlier this year, the state of Louisiana agreed to pay a newly formed company millions of dollars to set up shop here and to compete directly with us.

This company gets free commercial office space in the heart of the downtown business district, gets 25% of EXPENSES reimbursed, and 30% of salary/payroll expenses. Its very demoralizing to know I am forced to pay taxes that are handed over to a competitor.

How can us small businesses possibly compete with that? I was talking to another business owner, who is actually an innovator in our field and they are so disgusted by this that they're going to leave the state.

Even if you believed that it was pure economic development, how do free-market conservatives manage to praise this sort of behavior?
That is what conservatism stands for today. Republicans decry when the government gives away dog food. So what they do is give their cronies the whole kennel. That lucky fellow never needs welfare again. He might drive other people to welfare, but he won't need it because even if he does drive his kennel in the ground, its just too big to fail.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,948 posts, read 43,906,055 times
Reputation: 20639
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post

You have to become a minority owned business to get government favors.
Oh my goodness, NO !
States, counties and cities compete in bdding wars to attract and retain business.
Cash Rewards
Free land
Free buildings
Free improvements
Free roads
Free worker training
Parking Lots
Tax Credits, and more, much, much more.

It has nothing to do with the Federal Government or minority-owned business. Take a look at this link to see some of the corporate names:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...ncentives.html
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:58 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 5,255,873 times
Reputation: 3138
Quote:
Originally Posted by things and stuff View Post
If free markets are a conservative principle, then why do conservatives brag about giving select companies subsidies? I realize it's marketed to the general public as economic development but I have a real problem with this.

I've worked very hard at building a small IT consulting firm which specializes in .net applications.

Earlier this year, the state of Louisiana agreed to pay a newly formed company millions of dollars to set up shop here and to compete directly with us.

This company gets free commercial office space in the heart of the downtown business district, gets 25% of EXPENSES reimbursed, and 30% of salary/payroll expenses. Its very demoralizing to know I am forced to pay taxes that are handed over to a competitor.

How can us small businesses possibly compete with that? I was talking to another business owner, who is actually an innovator in our field and they are so disgusted by this that they're going to leave the state.

Even if you believed that it was pure economic development, how do free-market conservatives manage to praise this sort of behavior?
I would guess that their ability to influence the economy is greater than yours. What I don't understand is why this is a conservative thing to you. If nearly all liberals and some conservatives do something, you go and blast the conservatives who do it? Obama puts billions into GM and Solyndra etc but you're going to blame Republicans for business subsidies?
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:02 PM
 
20,376 posts, read 18,325,196 times
Reputation: 8022
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
I am basically not with giving companies money directly.

Government does handle sewer, water, and electric. Like I said - I'm ok with a one time subsidy or waiver of assessment in that manner. Make it public so that everyone knows about the waiver - that should be done.

Something like you describe does not insert money in the regular revenue flow of the company - so it is not too much of a big deal to me.
That is because those are natural monopolies. How can you choose which sewer to use? The rest should be subject to a market system when no accounting of these space constraints exists. However there are no lobbyists that represent free enterprise.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:13 PM
 
20,376 posts, read 18,325,196 times
Reputation: 8022
What if we hired people to do a study to find out which things people would like to buy and then stimulate the economy by giving money to those that would produce it?


The only problem is how would we fund it? Where will we get the computer generated money? Where will we find an army of people who would seek out the best products to use?


Yes, I think we should raise taxes to fund a study to see what people want and then give those people who say they might make it the money. Its the system this country deserves.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:20 PM
 
6,137 posts, read 4,678,389 times
Reputation: 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by things and stuff View Post
If free markets are a conservative principle, then why do conservatives brag about giving select companies subsidies?
I stopped reading here ^
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:38 PM
 
2,492 posts, read 2,535,367 times
Reputation: 3384
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
That is what conservatism stands for today. Republicans decry when the government gives away dog food. So what they do is give their cronies the whole kennel. That lucky fellow never needs welfare again. He might drive other people to welfare, but he won't need it because even if he does drive his kennel in the ground, its just too big to fail.

It is only an "evil subsidy" if it benefits the middle class or promotes future technology that is not profitable today. But if it is giving money to the teabagger's puppeteers, then its ok.
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