Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Mao Zedong - 40 Million kills
Stalin - 20 Million kills
Hitler (National Socialist) - 20 Million kills
Roe vs. Wade - 60 Million kills
Here's the question, if liberals get enough power, is the natural progression to kill everyone that gets in their way?
With the exception of the Roe vs Wade decision, none of these are liberals. Mao and Stalin are examples of extreme far left dictators but that is the not the same thing as liberal. Not sure about Mao but Stalin also murdered many of his own fellow left wing communists.
I actually think the figure of 20 million kills each is too low for both Hitler and Stalin. Remember if nothing else, Hitler started WW2 and Stalin made it possible with the Nazi-Soviet Pact.
The fact that you think Hitler was liberal proves you're quite ignorant and trolling.
Today Christians ... stand at the head of [this country]... I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past ... (few) years.
- Adolf Hitler, quoted in: The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872
Quoting the Oxford University Press ?! That will get you nowhere with nanocat...
The word Oxford alone is enough to send him into paroxysms of bellicosity and possibly a rash in unseemly places , his knickers all twisted with self righteous aggression leading to much chaffing in the "seat"area.... Overeducated useless Oxford cretins cannot be trusted with anything so delicate as history. You must find a source closer to our PhD Holder's heart. Fox News perhaps ?
Communism as an ideology is utterly non-authoritarian. And just because there are authoritarian leaders of countries that have embraced leftist ideology doesn't tie the two together. Evidently, you are willing to ignore the authoritarian leaders of countries that have embraced rightist ideology.
I don't ignore authoritarian right-wing leaders either. It's embraced in pockets around the world and is just as dangerous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
And unions, or communes, or the Future of Farmers of America having elected leaders is evidence of.....nothing. Groups of people generally designate leaders to achieve their goals.
That's the problem. No matter how idealized the goals are of the collective, they have to appoint leaders to organize. Once there are leaders, the potential for abuse and authoritarian control surface. The problem with left-wing ideology is that when you give the Government the power to make decisions on your behalf or to further the greater good, you're putting far too much power in the hands of those in control while stripping away the rights of the individual, making it harder for the people to stand against those in power.
Communism is about community, as in an empowered community. It doesn't believe in authoritarian control (that would be the right wing).
At its core, no it doesn't. But combined with a powerful leader and strong national pride, it's easy to see how authoritarianism takes root in Communist countries.
Right-wing philosophy celebrates the individual and less government control, which is pretty much the opposite of authoritarian. Those that take individualism to the extreme join right-wing militias that oppose the government's authority over individual rights.
At this point I would be happy if the conservatives would just send in the junior varsity debaters.
The average four year old I think would be more competent and more rational as well as a lot cuter ! Has there been a surge in lobotomies recently or is there some kind of viral infection leading to the loss of mental acuity ? It is a little bit like watching a freak show , it makes you feel uncomfortable and yet you cannot help but stare....
Not exactly entertaining as such and yet strangely compelling in all its glorified stupidity.
One thing is has done for me though is raise my sense of self worth. I might not be the sharpest tool in the box and sometimes feel like a sandwich short of a picnic but compared to those Morons, I am a Genius... I feel positively gifted and intellectually a giant when I see some posters. So I suppose perhaps there is an upside to the moronic rantings of these ignorami.
I ask this sincerely, but are those posters actually this ignorant or are they just trying to get a reaction and bait people ???
I am not used to this level of debate so it is hard for me to accept that anyone who has even had the most rudimental of education and is literate and numerate could be so utterly devoid of logic, common sense and knowledge ?!
Is this some form of American entertainment whose charms I am immune to ?
I don't ignore authoritarian right-wing leaders either. It's embraced in pockets around the world and is just as dangerous.
That's the problem. No matter how idealized the goals are of the collective, they have to appoint leaders to organize. Once there are leaders, the potential for abuse and authoritarian control surface. The problem with left-wing ideology is that when you give the Government the power to make decisions on your behalf or to further the greater good, you're putting far too much power in the hands of those in control while stripping away the rights of the individual, making it harder for the people to stand against those in power.
So the problem is that groups choose leaders???
I don't think that that's a problem.
Sure, there is a potential for abuse and power grabs, see Egypt for a very current example. And Morsi is not a liberal.
You keep trying to make a case against liberals, when the issue isn't about political failings, it's about human failings.
Mao Zedong - 40 Million kills
Stalin - 20 Million kills
Hitler (National Socialist) - 20 Million kills
Roe vs. Wade - 60 Million kills
Here's the question, if liberals get enough power, is the natural progression to kill everyone that gets in their way?
Are you one of those people who thinks that because a word is in a name that it automatically is true?
Do you think North Korea is a "Democratic People's Republic"?
The National Socialist Party was a FASCIST party, which is RIGHT WING AND NOT "LIBERAL". Hitler murdered Socialists and Communists and his #1 enemy was the Soviet Union.
Roe vs Wade? Really? That's not a "liberal with power"
And of course, no "conservative" has ever propagated mass murder...not at all...oh wait, we have Idi Amin, Slobodan Milosevic, Leopold II of Belgium, Benito Mussolini and many others...not to mention the Catholic Church.
At its core, no it doesn't. But combined with a powerful leader and strong national pride, it's easy to see how authoritarianism takes root in Communist countries.
It is refreshing to see an association of national pride with liberalism. The opposite is usually spoken by the typical right winger. Or, perhaps what we're seeing here is a case of convenience from which the argument would flip given a situation.
As for how authoritarianism can take root, you need to investigate further. For that matter, who do you think Nazis regarded as their greatest political enemies? Actually, they did more than just see them as enemies. They devised prisoner markings for all prisoners, including their political inconveniences. You may look here for it.
While it is common knowledge that Nazi concentration camps had Jews. They also had...
- Communists
- Gays
- Immigrants (Roma were the German "Mexicans")
- Jews
:
BTW, the system was quite elaborate (as you should see). A Jew who was a political prisoner and gay was identifiable accordingly. What exactly was liberal about all this idiocy? Do you see the left wing going nuts about legal or illegal immigrants (BTW, Nazi Party platform included "self-deportation").
Authoritarianism takes root by appeasing the masses and plenty of variety exists. Lenin may have used communism as a tool (because people were disgusted with following the right wing promotion of Ancien Regime), and not unlike the French Revolution inspired by the American. In fact, many associate origins of "Left Wing" versus "Right Wing" to that. That was also the time when political shift from the usual (rule of the aristocracy/monarchy) towards democracy was beginning.
This should not be taken to assume there weren't liberals previously. Liberals have been around for as long as long-held beliefs and traditions and servitude within a hierarchy has been challenged. In fact, it is this hierarchy also that wooing populace via religious beliefs became integral to right wing politics. This can be seen in virtually ANY corner of the world.
Now, someone has already presented this excerpt from Hitler's speeches, but look closely:
Today Christians stand at the head of [this country]. I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit. We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past. (few) years.
Do you think that is left wing speak? Is this left wing speak? Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith. We need believing people.
Does the left wing detest trade unions, worker's right, collective bargaining? And the right wing is the opposite?
Quote:
Right-wing philosophy celebrates the individual and less government control, which is pretty much the opposite of authoritarian. Those that take individualism to the extreme join right-wing militias that oppose the government's authority over individual rights.
Less government control by the people IS indeed a right wing idea. That is not to celebrate the individual, but to build a hierarchy that affords less downwards freedoms to an individual.
PS. Do you understand why left wing doesn't bad mouth democratically elected government as being evil like the typical right winger?
Last edited by EinsteinsGhost; 12-06-2012 at 12:45 PM..
At this point I would be happy if the conservatives would just send in the junior varsity debaters.
You better believe it. Somehow posts where OP is called out on their claim of having a PH. D. have been deleted from this thread.
If this is the the kind of "discussion" CD is comfortable being associated with then I'm just as comfortable with bidding this place adieu.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I feel positively gifted and intellectually a giant when I see some posters. So I suppose perhaps there is an upside to the moronic rantings of these ignorami.
