Cadet quits West Point 6 months before graduation. Blames prevalence of religion as reason. (interview, regular)

[DentalFloss]

Originally Posted by renault

Another intolerant atheist bigot.

You don't know what you're talking about.

I WENT to West Point. Religious services, officially, were "optional". But there were consequences if you did not go, most especially for plebes (fourth classmen). I went along to get along, because I was young and didn't want to ruffle any feathers. If I had the opportunity to time travel, I would have lived with the consequences.

[DentalFloss]

Originally Posted by totsuka

In the old days he would have to complete 3 years in the enlisted ranks but now I think they will just let him go.

4 actually, at least when I went. (Class of '91)

But not in the case of a medical discharge, that's always just been a discharge (honorable unless extenuating circumstances dictated otherwise.)

[DentalFloss]

Originally Posted by alphamale

I don't see separation of church and state or freedom from religion anywhere.

And what about that language grants government the power to force religion onto citizens, military or otherwise?

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by DentalFloss

4 actually, at least when I went. (Class of '91)

But not in the case of a medical discharge, that's always just been a discharge (honorable unless extenuating circumstances dictated otherwise.)

He did get an honorable discharge, so perhaps all these great minds on CD don't know everything about the situation.

Cadet Quits, Cites Overt Religion At West Point : NPR

[DentalFloss]

Originally Posted by Glitch

I was given a direct and lawful order to attend religious services by my superior, even though they knew I was an atheist. I did as I was ordered to do, I had no other choice in the matter.

Actually, that is NOT a lawful order, which is why, as I posted above, religious events were officially "optional". Nonetheless, pressure, and consequences, were applied. From the sounds of it, it may be worse today than in mine, which seems odd considering the overall societal trends are moving in the opposite direction.

[DentalFloss]

Originally Posted by Glitch

Of course it was lawful, any superior has the authority to direct the actions of their subordinates, regardless of the subordinate's wishes.

Yes, but not all orders are lawful. To the contrary, your duty is to IGNORE an unlawful order, though that's probably a bit more important if the order is to execute a POW as opposed to attending church.

[Glitch]

Originally Posted by DentalFloss

Actually, that is NOT a lawful order, which is why, as I posted above, religious events were officially "optional". Nonetheless, pressure, and consequences, were applied. From the sounds of it, it may be worse today than in mine, which seems odd considering the overall societal trends are moving in the opposite direction.

Religious services may have been optional for you at West Point in 1991, but they were not optional at MCRD San Diego in 1972. As R. Lee Ermey so colorfully put it in Stanley Kubrik's "Full Metal Jacket", "So you can give your heart to Jesus, but your ass belongs to the Corps!"

You go where you are told, when you are told, and do what you are told, there is no debating the issue.

[DentalFloss]

Originally Posted by Glitch

Religious services may have been optional for you at West Point in 1991, but they were not optional at MCRD San Diego in 1972.

Indeed, times were different.

Semper Fi, Marine!

[Glitch]

Originally Posted by DentalFloss

Yes, but not all orders are lawful. To the contrary, your duty is to IGNORE an unlawful order, though that's probably a bit more important if the order is to execute a POW as opposed to attending church.

Obviously unlawful orders, such as executing a POW, and I would extend that further to include firing on American citizens, are to be disobeyed. As well as anything that violates the soldier's code of conduct. That is hardly at the same level as being ordered to attend religious services.

I was inconvenienced for an hour once a week. That does not rise to the level of risking insubordination, in my opinion.

[BruSan]

Originally Posted by Glitch

Religious services may have been optional for you at West Point in 1991, but they were not optional at MCRD San Diego in 1972. As R. Lee Ermey so colorfully put it in Stanley Kubrik's "Full Metal Jacket", "So you can give your heart to Jesus, but your ass belongs to the Corps!"

You go where you are told, when you are told, and do what you are told, there is no debating the issue.

It's been that way in virtually every military offering specialist training programs for as along as they've existed.

Church parade was the norm and attendance was taken. You get to make the "optional" selection after some seniority has been garnered. What's so difficult to absorb or understand about this?

Cleaning a latrine floor with a tooth brush isn't something I'd elect to do but have nonetheless performed that little chore with required zeal. Sounds like political correctness is now running amock in every facet of our lives.