Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This is one of the many ridiculous misnomers about healthcare in the United Sates. The FACT is that EVERYBODY has access to healthcare. Period.
This homeless beggar you alluded to can walk into ANY Hospital Emergency Room in the nation and receive medical care, regardless of his ability to pay. Don't believe me? Go into ANY ER and read the huge sign that they're required by law to display.
Oh yes, they're free to get walk into A&E and receive the absolute minimum care. Forget about any preventive medicine though for those who can't afford regular check ups. Clearly the **** has to hit the fan before anything gets done and credit card / proof of insurance becomes no longer required.
The NHS in England is socialized healthcare, a Canadian style system is NOT socialized healthcare, just single payer. Healthcare providers are not employees of the government.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 12-29-2012 at 05:13 AM..
Reason: Edited for copyright
It does no good to act as though the United States could immediately convert to a healthcare system employed by much smaller countries, that are literally nothing like this country.
How about the healthcare systems of coutries such as Japan, Germany, etc? Large countries with perfectly functional systems. As a matter of fact, Health Care Economists (yes, that is a real discipline) favor switching to the German model, because it is the most similar to the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big George
In the VERY FEW countries where Universal Healthcare IS working, it's because it is being funded by something other than taxes. Sweden, for instance, funds healthcare by oil sales. Canada's healthcare is funded provincially, not federally - and is done so by the sale of natural resources.
Well, those "very few" countriers include every other country normally thought of as "developed" or "First World" Also, Sweden has oil? Since when?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big George
Until the FUNDING problem can be solved, any Universal Healthcare Mandates - ObamaCare and others - will be nothing but a national debacle.
The bottom line is that SOMEBODY has to pay for everything - regardless of what that "everything" is. Whether it's Section 8 Rental Subsidies, or the government bailout of corporations like AIG and GM, the money has to come from somewhere..
The point is that "everything" in America include a lot more than in other nations. Stuff not related to medical services. Billing, insurance, gatekeeping, oceans of administrative work and down-the-line knock-on work. Most of which is duplicated multiple times due to the fragmented system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big George
The question is not whether or not there should be healthcare reform. The question everybody is refusing to answer is this: WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM? If there is an intelligent way to fund Universal Healthcare - a way that will not bankrupt small companies and businesses, and drive even more jobs overseas, then it ought to be done. But so far, nothing of the sort has surfaced.
You know, reading your post, I'd almost get the impression that you don't realize how much cheaper UHC is that the current setup. I mean, it almost sound like you think it'd cost more! Of course, no-one would get into this discussion not knowing something that fundamental.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 12-29-2012 at 05:14 AM..
Reason: Edited for copyright
IN the countries where the health insurance is provided and managed by Governments and where it is managed well, it is managed well and it works because the taxes people pay go right back to the people through these services!
The US's problem is that it wants to turn EVERYTHING into a business! Someone's health is not a "business", it is a NEED...for as long as we would like to continue populating THIS planet! That is what it boils down too! People need to stay healthy because they need to work, raise kids, care of the elderly, and so forth....without HEALTHY people, and I mean that top to bottom healthy, (not doped on antidepressants to "think" they're healthy), you cannot have a productive economy, or any truly happy people. The US health care system right now is a big fat JOKE. If HEALTH was affordable in any way you would not have this many overweight and obese people such as below....your population would be HEALTHIER if it had access to healthcare, and healthcare education! almost the majority of people here do not have access to health care, and those who do and are not part of the 1%, end up in bankruptcy over insane bills!.....we are middle class, and have no access to dental care due to costs, or any other health care...and we're white, BTW, so not to be confused with those border trespassers...we work hard, long hours and thanks to the greed of private insurance companies we cannot afford to pay for health care! What should we do?
Don't you think it's kind of absurd to compare the per-person healthcare cost in America to, say, Turkey, or Czechoslovakia, or Mexico? In fact, it's a bit beyond absurd.
The truth is, the picture Algia posted sums up a good deal of the American problem, and why socialized/universal healthcare here would NOT be markedly cheaper.
Additionally, those who blindly believe in single payer/socialized/universal healthcare ignore the fact that the US already has something similar. It's called VA. Would you like to know how many veterans choose private healthcare over VA healthcare? I doubt that you would.
But mostly, the question you all refuse to answer is this: WHERE IS THE FUNDING COMING FROM? "It'll be cheaper" is not an adequate answer, because our government NEVER makes ANYTHING cheaper.
Ppl need to stop complaining about taxes, and taxes should be managed correctly, and be given back to ppl on the form of services that otherwise are not affordable due to greed. The citizens should not be extorted like this by a few greedy offering private healthcare.
I spent 30 years working in the insurance field as an underwriter, ratemaker, and compliance officer. I've personally argued with senior executives who were wanting me to ignore state statues and okay policy and/or rate changes that were in direct violation of those statutes because they could make more profit doing it the way they wanted to.
Ultimately I left the field before my working days were up and took a job in a medical records department earning about 15% of what I did as a compliance officer. But I slept better at night.
The standardization of medical forms itself would save tens of millions of dollars for hospitals and physicians offices whose personnel wouldn't have to know multiple forms from each health insurer. The elimination of profit from the system would benefit the country by reduction of 20%-30% administrative expense. As inefficient as Big George claims all government is, he failed to read that the administration of medicare is about 3% per year.
In addition, all insurors want to make a profit of around 12-15 percent. That is money out of our pockets to go into those of shareholders and CEO bonuses. That would be eliminated if we went to a non-profit system.
If the same amount of money went into the system that is going into it today, but we eliminate duplication of paperwork, reduction in insurance company administrative expenses, and elimination of profit there would be more than enough money to provide universal healthcare.
Big George either has a lot of stock in HCA, United Healthcare, and Aetna and has a vested interest in continuing to put money in his pocket, or his math skills could use some improvement. Even physicians have got this figured out.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 12-29-2012 at 05:42 AM..
Reason: Please discuss the topic, not each other
We are ALREADY paying more than anyone else for health care. His premise is that any revision will cost more. I spent 30 years working in the insurance field as an underwriter, ratemaker, and compliance officer. I've personally argued with senior executives who were wanting me to ignore state statues and okay policy and/or rate changes that were in direct violation of those statutes because they could make more profit doing it the way they wanted to.
Ultimately I left the field before my working days were up and took a job in a medical records department earning about 15% of what I did as a compliance officer. But I slept better at night.
The standardization of medical forms itself would save tens of millions of dollars for hospitals and physicians offices whose personnel wouldn't have to know multiple forms from each health insurer. The elimination of profit from the system would benefit the country by reduction of 20%-30% administrative expense. As inefficient as Big George claims all government is, he failed to read that the administration of medicare is about 3% per year.
In addition, all insurors want to make a profit of around 12-15 percent. That is money out of our pockets to go into those of shareholders and CEO bonuses. That would be eliminated if we went to a non-profit system.
If the same amount of money went into the system that is going into it today, but we eliminate duplication of paperwork, reduction in insurance company administrative expenses, and elimination of profit there would be more than enough money to provide universal healthcare.
Big George either has a lot of stock in HCA, United Healthcare, and Aetna and has a vested interest in continuing to put money in his pocket, or his math skills could use some improvement. Even physicians have got this figured out.
I take it, from this and other posts, that you're a teenager. Your attitude and arguments are nothing more or less than those of a high school kid who knows everything but really doesn't know anything.
- You deny that all Americans have access to healthcare, when the FACT is that they do.
- You deny that low-income Americans can afford healthcare, when the FACT is that EVERY state in the Union has subsidized medical insurance that can cost NOTHING per month, or $100 per month for a family of 5. This is a FACT. If you want a little education on the matter, look into what is called MinnesotaCare.
- You deny that the poorest of Americans have access to Medicaid, which is often provided at no cost to the consumer.
- You deny the FACT that VA medical care is available to ALL military veterans - all 21 million of them! That's virtually the same number as the entire population of Australia.
- You deny the FACT that our government messes with, and skyrockets the price of, everything they get involved in.
- You deny the FACT that every single hospital ER in the nation is required by law to provide care for ANYONE who comes through the doors.
You parrot lies from agenda-driven websites, yet you claim that I am the one who "doesn't get it."
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 12-29-2012 at 05:42 AM..
Having "acces", and being able to "afford" health care are 2 different things! Yes, health care is out there, BUT for a family of 6 on 39k it is UNaccessible!!! If my husband took what was offered at his job it would cost over $900 per month:
So here's a breakdown of unafordable for u:
He gets $1300 twice a month; rent is $1705, utilities + phone cable total about $750, and if we took the insurance out too we'd be left with roughly $500 for food and gas, NO clothing, shoes, or anything else! And we're not overweight!!! That is called UNaccessible Health Care, AND you conveniently forget that DENTAL is EXTRA even though teeth are attached to the body!!! EYE insurance also separate....etc!!!!!! It is a MOOT point having companies providing insurance IF we cannot BUY it!!!! I rather pay more taxes and have them returned to me in the form for health care that when I need it, Its there and paid for without draining my acct or forcing me into bancrupcy, basically punishing me for getting sick!!!!!
Don't you think it's kind of absurd to compare the per-person healthcare cost in America to, say, Turkey, or Czechoslovakia, or Mexico? In fact, it's a bit beyond absurd.
The truth is, the picture Algia posted sums up a good deal of the American problem, and why socialized/universal healthcare here would NOT be markedly cheaper.
Additionally, those who blindly believe in single payer/socialized/universal healthcare ignore the fact that the US already has something similar. It's called VA. Would you like to know how many veterans choose private healthcare over VA healthcare? I doubt that you would.
But mostly, the question you all refuse to answer is this: WHERE IS THE FUNDING COMING FROM? "It'll be cheaper" is not an adequate answer, because our government NEVER makes ANYTHING cheaper.
If we do it right we will save money. Here are some good reads on how it could be cheaper and where the money will come from. We might even come out healthier in the end which would be fantastic. Don't give up on America, I think we can still compete in this world if we start growing along with other countries. We need to start thinking about our future and change how we view our health.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
He will never get it
