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in the us, you walk right in, show your insurance and get 3 nurses waiting hand and foot on you, you feel like a prince, in canada, you get told to sit down for 3-5 hours before you see the er doctor.
Your sampling might not have been ideal. Even in the US you have to wait in some places.
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Originally Posted by scaramouchebluez
you feel like a prince,
That is not the point of healthcare. If you want that, you can get supplemental private insurance on top of the public healthcare (in the UK), go to a private option (rare, since most people don't want it) so you can feel like a prince for a premium.
I think there should be medicare for all, and private options on top of that (not instead) for those who want to feel like a prince. "prince insurance" on top of "health insurance".
Well the good of national healthcsare is everyone "gets" healthcare no one is not covered. The bad part is better get used to waiting in line to go into the emergency room like in england and canada. I been to both, in the us, you walk right in, show your insurance and get 3 nurses waiting hand and foot on you, you feel like a prince, in canada, you get told to sit down for 3-5 hours before you see the er doctor. Better hope not to have a real emergency
LOl, I'm not sure where you went to the ER in America but in any city you have a wait about 3 hours to get seen unless your immediate life or death. Maybe a small town but I imagine that is true in Canada.
The care is pretty much the same in both place give or take but the big difference is who's covered. In America if you don't have good insurance, or none at all, you skip it until it's an emergency. The preventive care Canadians take for granted is what we don't get here. You wouldn't go to the doctor just because you were concerned a mole was cancer or you had jaw pain if it costs you 120 bucks you don't have. But, you would go to the ER for a heart attack, not much choice. Then you might lose your home afterwards but at least your alive to not live in it.
Last edited by TheViking85; 06-19-2013 at 09:24 PM..
Reason: Please refrain using color in this sub forum
Well the good of national healthcsare is everyone "gets" healthcare no one is not covered. The bad part is better get used to waiting in line to go into the emergency room like in england and canada. I been to both, in the us, you walk right in, show your insurance and get 3 nurses waiting hand and foot on you, you feel like a prince, in canada, you get told to sit down for 3-5 hours before you see the er doctor. Better hope not to have a real emergency
I believe the average waiting times in US emergency rooms range from 3 hours in Iowa to over 5 in Arizona. Outside of peak hours. The US sluices a lot more patients through emergency rooms than other countries, because it is weher everyone who don't have insurance end up when their problems have grown huge and expensive.
There is less pressure on emergency rooms elsewhere. Waits only approach US waiting times during peak hours.
The issue is how can we take our medical care up a notch to include health and not just disease while in a for profit system. We are currently not able to extend our medical care to everyone, and that's a concern because we don't really offer health care, just disease control. For profit disease control.
As it stands our current system is mainly disease and pain management. We rely on expensive drugs and costly surgeries. We spend more on this extreme care per capita than any other country. Around $9, 348 this year while getting less bang for the buck personally.
When you look at what we treat it's mostly preventable illness and pain. With actual health care we could take down our numbers in this area considerably. A major culprit in why we don't revamp our medical care is based on maximizing profits instead of nurturing good health. Modern medicine in the U.S. treats almost every condition in an emergency fashion. It creates fast wealth for the corporate medical complex but patients are broke and have poor health outlooks.
Taking our current system and just expanding it will just expand this already set in stone problem creating more profit, not less. Our system needs to offer real alternatives in healthcare. Wellness always covered in full, instead of illness. Integrative medicine, including real nutrition advise, stress reduction, mental health stabilizers and awareness. Everyone should have their blood drawn for deficiencies in nutrition if they ask, it should be covered. We shouldn't need a medical indicator to seek out what our bodies are lacking or what we can change to prevent illness.
It's not just about covering everyone, although I believe we should have a national healthcare program that does. But we also need to stop the profit, with profit in the way we don't receive quality care, we receive high cost emergency care. This gives the most profit for medical corporations and drug companies, it's the method of choice when left up to our current system. I stand by a non profit system because a need for profit, skews the motives we have set in our system of care.
We have high profit care, not preventative healthcare. Why would a medical corporation want preventive care? There is less profit in it, it wouldn't. This is a mind set and will take years. We have to undo the current mind set that our health depends on our wealth. We think like peasants. We should stop. If we are patriotic, we should stand up together and demand a change in our current system. The majority of Americans are for a change yet it's not happening. That is clearly a sign that corporations in the medical industry dominate our systems outcomes. Not us.
The issue is how can we take our medical care up a notch to include health and not just disease while in a for profit system. We are currently not able to extend our medical care to everyone, and that's a concern because we don't really offer health care, just disease control. For profit disease control.
As it stands our current system is mainly disease and pain management. We rely on expensive drugs and costly surgeries. We spend more on this extreme care per capita than any other country. Around $9, 348 this year while getting less bang for the buck personally.
When you look at what we treat it's mostly preventable illness and pain. With actual health care we could take down our numbers in this area considerably. A major culprit in why we don't revamp our medical care is based on maximizing profits instead of nurturing good health. Modern medicine in the U.S. treats almost every condition in an emergency fashion. It creates fast wealth for the corporate medical complex but patients are broke and have poor health outlooks.
Taking our current system and just expanding it will just expand this already set in stone problem creating more profit, not less. Our system needs to offer real alternatives in healthcare. Wellness always covered in full, instead of illness. Integrative medicine, including real nutrition advise, stress reduction, mental health stabilizers and awareness. Everyone should have their blood drawn for deficiencies in nutrition if they ask, it should be covered. We shouldn't need a medical indicator to seek out what our bodies are lacking or what we can change to prevent illness.
It's not just about covering everyone, although I believe we should have a national healthcare program that does. But we also need to stop the profit, with profit in the way we don't receive quality care, we receive high cost emergency care. This gives the most profit for medical corporations and drug companies, it's the method of choice when left up to our current system. I stand by a non profit system because a need for profit, skews the motives we have set in our system of care.
We have high profit care, not preventative healthcare. Why would a medical corporation want preventive care? There is less profit in it, it wouldn't. This is a mind set and will take years. We have to undo the current mind set that our health depends on our wealth. We think like peasants. We should stop. If we are patriotic, we should stand up together and demand a change in our current system. The majority of Americans are for a change yet it's not happening. That is clearly a sign that corporations in the medical industry dominate our systems outcomes. Not us.
Yes we should stand up and demand a change. That is the problem Americans do not stand up for a change other than social issues. I don't believe people would stand up unless millions suddenly lost health insurance. Even then I'm not completely sure people would speak up enough. I don't know what's going on in this country. Its as if people are asleep or just plain depressed. The country is literally falling apart before our eyes. People avoid going to doctors, because they are afraid of the bills. People paying outrageous amounts each month for health insurance, yet have deductibles so high they have to drop the plan. Worse yet people so overwhelmed with medical bills they end up filing bankruptcy. There is more time spent on Football in this country, than on each other as far as I'm concerned.
Yes corporations in the medical industry do dominate and control our systems outcomes. Medicine is nothing more than a big profit for business in this country. That is why things never change and as I said we keep allowing it. Time to put our foot down. Just look at the bombardment of drug commercials on TV and radio. It irritates me greatly when I see celebrities being spokespersons for prescription drugs. Telling us to ask our doctors for a medicine, that only he or she should be telling us about. That is if we even have the condition. I'm talking to you Sally Fields and Blythe Danner. Both of these actors should be ashamed of themselves, for endorsing drugs to benefit the drug company that hired them. Why don't both of them start a commercial in regards to, the millions that can't afford the doctor let alone the pills.
The issue is how can we take our medical care up a notch to include health and not just disease while in a for profit system. We are currently not able to extend our medical care to everyone, and that's a concern because we don't really offer health care, just disease control. For profit disease control.
Good point. But the solution is quite trivial. You incentivize good health measures: i.e. reward a doctor or nurse for promoting things like quitting smoking, eating healthy, exercising. So, if your obese patient with CVD loses weight, you reward the doctor. They are doing this in many countries.
Quote:
As it stands our current system is mainly disease and pain management. We rely on expensive drugs and costly surgeries. We spend more on this extreme care per capita than any other country. Around $9, 348 this year while getting less bang for the buck personally.
When you look at what we treat it's mostly preventable illness and pain. With actual health care we could take down our numbers in this area considerably. A major culprit in why we don't revamp our medical care is based on maximizing profits instead of nurturing good health. Modern medicine in the U.S. treats almost every condition in an emergency fashion. It creates fast wealth for the corporate medical complex but patients are broke and have poor health outlooks.
You fight money with money. And poor medical science with better medical science. You essentially need an alternate medical industry (for profit) that focuses on preventative medicine. For example, you could have nutritionists working for you to improve your eating habits. You could have therapists training you for exercise, meditation, etc. And doctors to medically advise you and assess the progress. This in itself could be a Billion $$ industry.
And note that this is not a novel idea. It is currently only available for the rich.
Quote:
Taking our current system and just expanding it will just expand this already set in stone problem creating more profit, not less. Our system needs to offer real alternatives in healthcare. Wellness always covered in full, instead of illness. Integrative medicine, including real nutrition advise, stress reduction, mental health stabilizers and awareness. Everyone should have their blood drawn for deficiencies in nutrition if they ask, it should be covered. We shouldn't need a medical indicator to seek out what our bodies are lacking or what we can change to prevent illness.
Not sure what profit you are talking about. But much of what you are saying will be moderated once Obama Care kicks in.
By the way, my insurance company pays me $100s for doing things like: getting a yearly blood test, joining a registered exercise group, joining webMD, etc.
"Healthy consumers could see insurance rates double or even triple when they look for individual coverage under the federal health law later this year, while the premiums paid by sicker people are set to become more affordable, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of coverage to be sold on the law's new exchanges."
Insurance is different than coverage. Insurance spreads cost across everyone in the pool according to risk and utilization. The boys and girls playing House over in the House and Senate missed that class. I'm an advocate of real national health. Obamacare won't cut it and will fail, jeopardizing the chance for real reform.
Last edited by TrapperJohn; 07-01-2013 at 08:47 AM..
No one should ever die because of lack of healthcare. I know for a fact it happens over and over in the USA, in what is suppose to be the leading country on earth. Yes I think its beyond disgusting.
Agree with you totally.
As a newcomer to the USA, I can't help comparing the European system to the American "system". And what I see is shocking.
America has disproportionately expensive healthcare, and US citizens don't get the same quality or cover that Europeans generally get for much much less money. Evidently something is going badly wrong. And yet, how many times will you hear an American reject national healthcare provision as a threat to their "American freedoms"? Somehow a link is also made between national healthcare and communism. It's HILARIOUS.
But you stop laughing when you realise people are dying because of this gross misconception. American healthcare companies are way out of control. Their charges are so outrageous I'm surprised Americans aren't marching in the street protesting about them. Now that would be exercising your "freedom". The current system can see people become bankrupt even with insurance. Get into a car crash and the other person isn't insured, then you get hit with his health bill. Bang. Say goodbye to your savings and home. Insurers are also adept at declining to pay out when they really should do.
It just surprises me that a 1st world country has a 3rd world health provision for it's people. I've heard people say Americans are brainwashed into believing national health cover damages their rights as an individual or goes against American values. But I suspect the real reason is a selfish one. What they really mean to say is "why should I pay for someone elses healthcare?" This pig ignorant attitude sustains the flow of many hard working Americans homes, inheritances and life savings straight into the health companies bank accounts.
Whatever the reason, it's bizarre for such a successful country to fail so badly in such a vital area.
Actually, socialized health care in America would be far preferable to the Obamacare "worst of both worlds" hybrid. By ensuring Big Insurance and Big Health middleman profits, plus adding on the insanely costly bureaucracy of Big Government, while fixing NONE of the problems of tort liability and high cost, all Obamacare does is make EVERY existing problem with providing health care far worse.
As a newcomer to the USA, I can't help comparing the European system to the American "system". And what I see is shocking.
America has disproportionately expensive healthcare, and US citizens don't get the same quality or cover that Europeans generally get for much much less money. Evidently something is going badly wrong. And yet, how many times will you hear an American reject national healthcare provision as a threat to their "American freedoms"? Somehow a link is also made between national healthcare and communism. It's HILARIOUS.
But you stop laughing when you realise people are dying because of this gross misconception. American healthcare companies are way out of control. Their charges are so outrageous I'm surprised Americans aren't marching in the street protesting about them. Now that would be exercising your "freedom". The current system can see people become bankrupt even with insurance. Get into a car crash and the other person isn't insured, then you get hit with his health bill. Bang. Say goodbye to your savings and home. Insurers are also adept at declining to pay out when they really should do.
It just surprises me that a 1st world country has a 3rd world health provision for it's people. I've heard people say Americans are brainwashed into believing national health cover damages their rights as an individual or goes against American values. But I suspect the real reason is a selfish one. What they really mean to say is "why should I pay for someone elses healthcare?" This pig ignorant attitude sustains the flow of many hard working Americans homes, inheritances and life savings straight into the health companies bank accounts.
Whatever the reason, it's bizarre for such a successful country to fail so badly in such a vital area.
I'd be ashamed of it if I were an American
This is not to disagree with your post but the reason that people are not 'marching in the streets' is because, most people never pay the cost of their health care.
The group that incurs the most cost, the elderly, are pretty much covered by Medicare. Most of the rest are covered by Medicaid, the VA or by employer provided health insurance. Of the 40 million or so people not covered, many are young and healthy and have taken a financial decision to run the risk. So the number of people who take a real financial or health hit is very small. For most people, the main costs they see are their health insurance premiums - often heavily subsidised by an employer - their franchise and their co-pays. Until enough people start taking serious financial hits there will be no pressure on politicians to fix the system.
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