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By the way, why is it that so many respondents to this thread (like everybody who has posted on Page 91 so far) has more common sense on this issue than so many of our politicians?
And I do like President Obama's efforts with the Affordable Care Act, but it needs to be seen as only a beginning point from which to begin constructing a universal health care system like so many other countries have, not as an end in itself.
When I started this thread I wanted to see how others felt, if the actual people of this country felt the need for change. I've gotten my answer 23 pages and a year later. Yes, people want change, and most people are intelligent enough to give it a go despite the pitfalls that will be faced. So far it still isn't affordable healthcare, and the insurance companies are still making a large profit. Keeping the profit is keeping the corruption. When pharm companies are coming to America to rip us off because other countries won't let them we still have a problem. IMO, of course.
Obama care is a far cry from where I hope we end up, full of unsolved problems but a start be it rough and full of pay offs. I do hope we continue to iron out the real issues with our system of things and realize that capitalism belongs in business, and should bring opportunity to make money but not off the backs of it's ill citizens. Capitalism has no business in the health care system, or welfare system. A social structure based on profit leads to climbing on the backs of the weak, and I doubt most people would want our country representing itself by that. At least I don't. We need to join together when it comes to the health and welfare of our country. When it comes to healthcare blindly following one political party is a mistake, regardless of which party it is. So far in our history neither side has come through enough to secure our welfare.
I agree with them, regulation has fallen by the "waste" side. Doctors hire code experts to milk insurance companies, insurance companies hire experts to milk the patients, a lot of people standing around doing nothing, medicare or private insurance. Doesn't matter, it's turned into a money making game at the expense of your average people, and it has to stop.
We are so use to getting needless, useless tests (profit) that we consider this normal. It's not normal, it's profit driven. Some of those test are even harmful and overused.
I call it growing pains, any young country goes through them. People have to allow it and hope that by the next generation or the next, things will be better. Not only should they hope, they have to be willing to work through the mess so future generations have a better life.
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I call it growing pains, any young country goes through them. People have to allow it and hope that by the next generation or the next, things will be better. Not only should they hope, they have to be willing to work through the mess so future generations have a better life.
Friends and family in Canada said it happened that way. A man died a horrible death late 50's and the nation said enough.
wonder how many in the US die because they don't have insurance and can't afford the surgery or treatment.........
and everyone keeps bringing up the higher taxes.... think of it this way..... I pay $500 per month for my insurance.... if that money was put into the public coffers for medical care, I think it would go a lot further than it does right now..... lining the pockets of an insurance carrier.....
You and I are on the same page. I brought up the same point about paying an extra $500 x 12 in taxes annually in lieu of insurance premiums, back toward the beginning of this thread, and challenged posters to volunteer for the extra tax burden. The only person who voted "yay" was someone who had moved from the US to Belgium. No one else raised their hand. About 4 years ago, I wrote one of my representatives in Congress suggesting the same thing: "raise my taxes" to pay for healthcare instead of the high insurance premium I and other individually-insured were paying at the time. I was later told by an aide the letter caused quite a stir.
I still think a combination system like France has, though, would be best, at this point.
If you know your tax money is going to come back to you so you can get to a doctor when you need to, it makes paying taxes easier. Believe me, I don't actually like paying taxes but when I go to the doctor and only pay 1 euro for the visit and pay 20% for meds and treatments, I don't mind so much. I will need lifelong care and meds so I have to choose between a country that I'd rather be in and go die in a corner someplace or make the best of it here. Most US citizens don't have a choice. They should say "enough".
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Although lifestyle contributes to illnesses at some extent, but even if everyone lived like an Olympic athlete (not available option to 99% of the population) most medical procedures and medications would still be required.
You are committing the "fallacy of the single cause".
The amount of reduction in healthcare spending by replacing soda with gym membership would be probably no more than 20%. Still you cannot account for 80% of those trillions spent on healthcare. Injuries, genetic diseases, cancer, appendix surgery, kidney stone, giving birth... still cost a lot.
There are many people who's life sucks so much that they need a cigarette or something like that to compensate. If a nice life is not available (cant afford it, or don't qualify for a better job, wife is cheating...), then at least get a cigarette or a tasty soda, so they don't have to hang themselves. So if you didn't walk in someone's shoes, then don't judge them things like this.
You are dead wrong, the number one killer in all of America is due to cardiovascular disease. Do Olympic athletes die from cardiovascular disease? Certainly. However the obesity epidemic, and the number one killer in the USA is due to lifestyle choices, mainly from diet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wudge
Over and over, you are assuming what you wish to prove. Your logical fallacy is best known as "begging the question" (petito principii).
HTH
I agree with you 100%. Leave the philosophy out of it, bring facts and literature to prove your statements or get out.
You and I are on the same page. I brought up the same point about paying an extra $500 x 12 in taxes annually in lieu of insurance premiums, back toward the beginning of this thread, and challenged posters to volunteer for the extra tax burden. The only person who voted "yay" was someone who had moved from the US to Belgium. No one else raised their hand. About 4 years ago, I wrote one of my representatives in Congress suggesting the same thing: "raise my taxes" to pay for healthcare instead of the high insurance premium I and other individually-insured were paying at the time. I was later told by an aide the letter caused quite a stir.
I still think a combination system like France has, though, would be best, at this point.
I must have missed your earlier post..... this has ALWAYS been my position.....
People are creatures of habit so change is always scary but it's the only way! Sooner or later you'll have to. Obama is not correct on all counts but he's trying to change things. Things can be adjusted once you start. People have to want it though.
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problem is, too many people believe the half-truths paid for and spread by the insurance lobbyists.....
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