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Old 12-14-2012, 02:14 PM
 
57,022 posts, read 35,021,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Absolutely. The union was a common topic among the employees who supported it, and they were apparently the most miserable to work with. My uncle only worked there because it was the only good job available to him at the time.
HR people aren't union in any company i've ever heard of. So why would it have made any difference to him?
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Old 12-14-2012, 03:59 PM
 
12,918 posts, read 16,775,703 times
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So in other words this company and department were completely made up? It's easier to make that accusation than to address the issue, isn't it?

I will say that the company eventually did modernize their systems. But it took them at least TWENTY YEARS to do so. That's how out of date they were when he was there.

You can't say that it was a financial issue that kept them from modernizing. Would it really have been cheaper to employ 12 full time staff for twenty years than to convert to a system that a personal computer could handle?
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:35 PM
 
57,022 posts, read 35,021,518 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
So in other words this company and department were completely made up? It's easier to make that accusation than to address the issue, isn't it?

I will say that the company eventually did modernize their systems. But it took them at least TWENTY YEARS to do so. That's how out of date they were when he was there.

You can't say that it was a financial issue that kept them from modernizing. Would it really have been cheaper to employ 12 full time staff for twenty years than to convert to a system that a personal computer could handle?
Address what issue? From the story you gave, there really wasn't anything to address.

If a company didn't modernize, it's their own fault. I've never heard of a union keeping a company from modernizing. Sorry.

You just seem to be angry that 12 people didn't lose their jobs sooner, which i'm sure would've made you very happy.
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Old 12-15-2012, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,809 posts, read 26,311,903 times
Reputation: 25676
I worked in a GM plant with the UAW, though I wasn't a member. It was idiotic. We would have problems with a machine that should have taken 15 minutes to fix. A call goes in and the machine repairman (skilled trade classification) shows up. Looks around and figures out a guard must come off. So...a call goes in for a tinsmith (another trade) to remove the guard..while the first guy wanders off. Tinsmith shows up removes the guard. Finally the first guy shows back up and starts digging further...ah-ha, the problem is a limit switch that needs to be adjusted, we'll be done in 2 minutes. Nope...gotta call in the electrician to adjust that. Half hour later, one might show up. SO, we get the switch adjusted and are ready to rip, right? Nope...gotta get that tinknocker back to set the guard back on. OK..finally ready to hit the switch. OOps, where did that first guy go again? He has to remove his safety lock from the machine before it can be fired up. So...2-3 hours go by and three people end up involved in a job that should have taken the first guy 15 minutes. There was a reason GM spun off many of their component divisions and created Delphi.

As a manufacturing engineer responsible for the department, I often just fixed the problem myself and let the union write their little grievances. Kept the committeeman and my boss tied up and out of my way, while I actually got the job done. Many of the better union tradesmen were as sick of the system as I was.

On the other hand, I've worked in other jobs with trades union people that were very hard working and skilled.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:08 AM
 
57,022 posts, read 35,021,518 times
Reputation: 18824
.....and the stories just keep coming. LOL
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:15 AM
 
Location: The Brat Stop
8,347 posts, read 7,209,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Okay, so you are a liberal. We get it.
Now we understand the true meaning of this thread. Denigrate as many libs as possible. The forum is full of these since yesterday.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:17 AM
 
Location: The Brat Stop
8,347 posts, read 7,209,597 times
Reputation: 2279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
I worked in a GM plant with the UAW, though I wasn't a member. It was idiotic. We would have problems with a machine that should have taken 15 minutes to fix. A call goes in and the machine repairman (skilled trade classification) shows up. Looks around and figures out a guard must come off. So...a call goes in for a tinsmith (another trade) to remove the guard..while the first guy wanders off. Tinsmith shows up removes the guard. Finally the first guy shows back up and starts digging further...ah-ha, the problem is a limit switch that needs to be adjusted, we'll be done in 2 minutes. Nope...gotta call in the electrician to adjust that. Half hour later, one might show up. SO, we get the switch adjusted and are ready to rip, right? Nope...gotta get that tinknocker back to set the guard back on. OK..finally ready to hit the switch. OOps, where did that first guy go again? He has to remove his safety lock from the machine before it can be fired up. So...2-3 hours go by and three people end up involved in a job that should have taken the first guy 15 minutes. There was a reason GM spun off many of their component divisions and created Delphi.

As a manufacturing engineer responsible for the department, I often just fixed the problem myself and let the union write their little grievances. Kept the committeeman and my boss tied up and out of my way, while I actually got the job done. Many of the better union tradesmen were as sick of the system as I was.

On the other hand, I've worked in other jobs with trades union people that were very hard working and skilled.
I worked for a county highway department (union) and it took 3 people to patch a pothole, one to work the shovel and two to supervise on how to do it more efficiently.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:45 PM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
5,800 posts, read 6,540,420 times
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Given GMs multiple brawls with unions over the years, it's amazing that they ever got any cars off their assembly lines in the first place.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:52 PM
 
31,862 posts, read 14,841,144 times
Reputation: 13521
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
My uncle worked used to work for a unionized company. In addition to it being an overall miserable place to work, he told me about the inefficiencies that resulted from the union rules. There was a department that was still using 20 year old data center technology, in an effort to preserve the jobs for the people that worked there. It required 4 employees to be there 24/7. The department used two complete floors of the office building.

Other companies were using a single desktop computer to do the same thing. Something that could be done by a cell phone today.

Is that sort of practice good for our economy? Or is it insanity?

Why are you blaming the union for the company using 20 year old technology. That's the company's fault. Union rules have nothing to do with it. Unions look after the employees
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:03 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
9,701 posts, read 5,081,568 times
Reputation: 4270
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
My uncle worked used to work for a unionized company. In addition to it being an overall miserable place to work, he told me about the inefficiencies that resulted from the union rules. There was a department that was still using 20 year old data center technology, in an effort to preserve the jobs for the people that worked there. It required 4 employees to be there 24/7. The department used two complete floors of the office building.

Other companies were using a single desktop computer to do the same thing. Something that could be done by a cell phone today.

Is that sort of practice good for our economy? Or is it insanity?
Do you think these guys would have paid for a union to avoid this accident happening: Upper Big Branch Mine disaster
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