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Agreed, good sir! The answer to the violence problem in our schools is...MORE VIOLENCE!!!
I don't know but what we are doing now isn't working. Maybe actually have consequences for bad behavior and quit labelling everyone and needing to embrace everyone's label, which isn't working either.
You can't behave? Oh it's ok you're just different. Bs.
Parents get called about bad behavior and it's, "oh not my kid" or "he or she doesn't listen at home either and time out doesn't work so maybe we need to take the child to a doctor". Give me a break.
I've actually worked in schools and prisons and see this bs daily.
People don't learn from a good talking to. They learn from consequences. Not saying violence, but actual punishment.
Imagine though, a HS kid who just minds his own business. Maybe he's not as social as he could be and maybe he really doesn't like the students around him and all he wants to do is grow up and get away. What if some computer program or some school counselor labeled him as some kind of a potential risk and how the stigma could follow him?
I would hate to see people unjustly labeled. I would rather we get the guns and minimize these future incidents that are bound to occur and will be impossible to prevent.
Imagine though, a HS kid who just minds his own business. Maybe he's not as social as he could be and maybe he really doesn't like the students around him and all he wants to do is grow up and get away. What if some computer program or some school counselor labeled him as some kind of a potential risk and how the stigma could follow him?
I would hate to see people unjustly labeled. I would rather we get the guns and minimize these future incidents that are bound to occur and will be impossible to prevent.
How are you going to do that? Kind of like how you're keeping illegal drugs out of their hands?
Are you insisting that prohibition actually works?
You know everytime one these shootings happen, we turn on the TV and hear the same rhetoric, time and time again. "why didn't anyone see this coming" "they must have shown signs of being mentaly ill but no one caught it" "how can we better handle the mentally unsound" "we have to find a way to know who these people are and keep weapons out of their hands" and on and on it goes.
It is in my opinion though, that we are living in the products of our own making. Did you ever consider that maybe these psychotics go undetected, is because we live in a society where being "different" is now not only widely accepted, but even celebrated? And god forbid that anyone remark or mention someones abnormalities, because if they dare to notice that someone may be a little different, they are suddenly labeled as a "bully"..... Children in this day and age are now force fed with the notions that "everyone is special" and that no one is "weird" and everyone has to be coddled and embraced for "who they are"
Maybe nothing can be done about these NUTJOBS because of societies desire to be so politically correct....
The point is that we aren't allowed to notice any type of abnormality or difference. And are you saying that there aren't any subtle indications of being mentally ill?
... and parents try to hide their freaks from public scrutiny so no one is aware that their neighbor may "go postal" at any minute.
How are you going to do that? Kind of like how you're keeping illegal drugs out of their hands?
Are you insisting that prohibition actually works?
Good point, but I think guns are quite different than alcohol which was a "wink, wink" against the law. When many police officers went home and drank illegal moonshine on the weekend.
It has nothing to do with people being different. Being different is the human condition.
What has happened is that people who are mentally ill have been pushed aside. There are few resources for them, and the few that is available are well over taxed. I have worked with indigent that have mental illness problems and it is appalling how they are treated.
I helped a young man who was discharged from the military for medical reasons. They found he was bipolar and nearly dishonorably discharged him for his erratic behavior, but his doc intervened after spending 3 months trying to get him to see the base psychologist. Once he got out and was on his meds he was fine, until he was laid off during a restructuring within a year. He is young without much savings...couldn't afford COBRA (he showed me the bill of over $1,000 a month) and the generic meds were $300 a month themselves. Not possible with unemployment. He couldn't work without his meds, and he could afford his meds without being able to work. What made it worse is that his parents didn't believe him, and when he tried to move back they flushed his remaining meds.
We found him on the street knowing something is wrong, and suffering because of it, but no one would help him unless he was a threat to himself or others. Sometimes he could go to an ED to get some meds for a month, but the follow up appointments were sometimes up to 6 months later. We helped him afford his meds and get into an outpatient program, the only one seeing new patients in 20 miles. The outpatient program was terrible, with 4 hour waits to see a doctor that would half the time randomly cancel. Our group had to confront the clinic manager many times to keep the scripts coming and making sure he was being monitored.
This is a single person who knew something was wrong and had a group that cared compassionately about helping him. There are many people who have problems seeing if anything is wrong. There are many who don't have an aggressive support network to help them. There are many who can't afford to help themselves. We wonder why violent mentally ill people are not helped so they don't go on these rampages, and it is because we have abandoned all of the mentally ill.
You know everytime one these shootings happen, we turn on the TV and hear the same rhetoric, time and time again. "why didn't anyone see this coming" "they must have shown signs of being mentaly ill but no one caught it" "how can we better handle the mentally unsound" "we have to find a way to know who these people are and keep weapons out of their hands" and on and on it goes.
It is in my opinion though, that we are living in the products of our own making. Did you ever consider that maybe these psychotics go undetected, is because we live in a society where being "different" is now not only widely accepted, but even celebrated? And god forbid that anyone remark or mention someones abnormalities, because if they dare to notice that someone may be a little different, they are suddenly labeled as a "bully"..... Children in this day and age are now force fed with the notions that "everyone is special" and that no one is "weird" and everyone has to be coddled and embraced for "who they are"
Maybe nothing can be done about these NUTJOBS because of societies desire to be so politically correct....
Ever think about that???
Partly. However, many regular people show the same signs as these people and don't kill anyone. They are usually quiet, introverted, a bit of a loner, and often (but not always) bullied. Any signs of violence are usually subtle because they usually don't do things like brandish weapons like street thugs or torture animals like serial killers. They don't go on macho rants about killing everyone and usually try to avoid attention and thus most people who know them use words like "quiet" or "shy" or "keep to himself" or "I never really noticed him".
So unless you want to declare a War on the Unassuming; it is kinda difficult to stop these kind of things.
Plus, I am not sure what school you went to, but it's not like people who are "weird" are gleefully included and accepted. High school kids are anything but ultra-tolerant and super-accepting and they are very exclusive. I went to two high schools and both were pretty focused on social groups. I graduated in 2003 and I don't remember the geeks, the gay kids, or the people who were a little weird having it easy. I do remember them being excluded and even being beaten up a few times. Maybe things are completely different in 2012, but I doubt it.
The only reason why I wasn't a loner in high school is because I shared enough stereotypical traits of various high school cliques that I was able to befriend several members of the various groups (but never found acceptance in any one group), so I had several friends who were indeed popular (one of whom was the much better looking brother of one of my best friends) and tried to integrate me into the "in crowd", but I didn't like a lot of those people and a lot of them didn't like me back. I was on the wrestling team and got along with quite a few jocks, but I had others who would object to their friends speaking to me like a jealous boyfriend objects to their girl talking to another guy. I had friends who were nerds, but I didn't fit in with the entire group because I hate Star Trek and have not considered the deep philosophical implications of the Jedi religion. I had a few friends who were hardcore stoners, but some stoners didn't take to me because I prefer not to spend every waking moment completely blitzed. I had a few friends who were, uh, "less-than-law abiding", but their friends saw me as "too soft" and "a straight". So I wasn't a loner and outside of school I was usually at someone's house or had people over at my house and I had a fairly large number of friends and was relatively well liked, but I was certainly a misfit and I never quite belonged.
Imagine though, a HS kid who just minds his own business. Maybe he's not as social as he could be and maybe he really doesn't like the students around him and all he wants to do is grow up and get away. What if some computer program or some school counselor labeled him as some kind of a potential risk and how the stigma could follow him?
I would hate to see people unjustly labeled. I would rather we get the guns and minimize these future incidents that are bound to occur and will be impossible to prevent.
I don't think either will do much to prevent this. I have yet to see strong evidence that gun control lowers the murder rate. I have seen some evidence that it lowers "gun deaths", but that just lowers one method and replaces it with another with little change in the actual statistics.
Hell, the massacre in Norway goes to show that even with heavy restrictions in place, a motivated psycho can find ways around the regulations. Brevik managed to buy a small farm as a pretense to acquire a hunting license plus buy large amounts of nitrogen fertilizer and diesel fuel without raising any red flags.
Even the UK still gets its occasional mass shooting every so often despite its much touted gun laws:
If you want a real, honest examination on mass shooters. I have an article written by a sociology professor (although he does not support strict gun control, he does make some arguments for a few tighter gun laws and offers some criticism of the gun lobby) that examines the mindset of mass shooters. It is very long BTW:
In the late 1980s, I was a prime candidate to be such a person. I was a loner, nose always in a book, free hour was spent in the library to get away from people, no friends, quiet and shy, and dark depression. However, my nature made it so I would never commit such acts. If I were to commit an act of violence, it would be against myself and not others. After decades of suffering, I'm on medication which has helped with my depression. We did have a gun in our home and I had easy access to shotguns and rifles and hand guns. I never held those guns with the intention of hurting others except for the time someone made a threat to come to my home while I was there alone. I held the gun ready within the home should they come. However, unless you've experienced mental illness, you can not assume you know what it's like. It's easy to say he should have sought help. Some people's mental illness prevents them from trusting others or the medication. I have an uncle who is great when he's on his medication but refuses to take his medication because he feels we're giving him the medication so he can't see what's really going on around him. His brothers hid their illness through drugs and alcohol. I don't want to become like them. It's scary to see heredity mental illness and know it is a possible future for myself and my daughter, who was receiving help since her middle school years which is when I needed such help.
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