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Old 12-18-2012, 07:06 PM
 
3,598 posts, read 4,939,955 times
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A weapon (or tool of any type) should be judged SOLELY on it's use to society INDEPENDENT of who is using it. You lose your whole argument when you start comparing cars to guns. One is designed precisely to save lives, the other to destroy them.

Thnk about why you cannot own a rocket launcher or a nuke or chemical weapons. We have already legally outlawed them because their detriment to society is far too dangerous to be held in the hands of private citizens... no matter what the user's intent is. Even if you only wanted to rid your house of roaches with mustard gas, you still cannot use it. If you wanted to blast a hole in a mountain to build yourself a cave for a home, you still can't do it. These are weapons of mass destruction... just like the Bushmaster used to kill twenty 1st graders. The fact that 40,000 people die from car accidents is indeed tragic and we must work even harder to make cars even safer than they've already become (thank you, Ralph Nader!). Why couldn't you say the same about guns?
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:07 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
8,996 posts, read 10,439,802 times
Reputation: 5752
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamBarrow View Post
Now there, you may have a point. But how can you define "use". Am I "using" a gun only if I shoot it? What if I carry it? Keep it in the house?
OK, how do you define "driving" a car? Are you "driving" it if it's parked, or in your garage?

Quote:
That doesn't matter at all, for reason I've explained numerous times.
Of course it matters. There's a big difference between manslaughter and murder. Ask any lawyer. Intent is everything.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:08 PM
 
Location: the Beaver State
6,464 posts, read 13,410,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamBarrow View Post
And 40,000 die from cars.

But that's okay, it's worth the convenience.
Don't forget bee stings, Coal Mines, drug over does and alcohol poisoning.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:10 PM
 
6,137 posts, read 4,853,557 times
Reputation: 1516
Quote:
Originally Posted by logline View Post
A weapon (or tool of any type) should be judged SOLELY on it's use to society INDEPENDENT of who is using it. You lose your whole argument when you start comparing cars to guns. One is designed precisely to save lives, the other to destroy them.
Look, I'm not going to read past this. Because that would only play into the second part of my argument, the one to do with priorities. My argument is extremely simple, and I urge you to at least stop and try to understand what I'm saying.

Do you believe that legal possession of these items, along with any other side effects of the legality of their ownership (more of a philosophical thing), is not worth death, whereas the legal possession of cars is worth death? Because it seems to me that in this thread and others liberals try to take an unrealistic moral high ground.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:11 PM
 
6,137 posts, read 4,853,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pch1013 View Post
OK, how do you define "driving" a car? Are you "driving" it if it's parked, or in your garage?
Well actually, I don't. My argument pertains only to the ultimate outcome of the legality of it. That outcome would include the results of any use, however much or little the population chooses to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pch1013 View Post
Of course it matters. There's a big difference between manslaughter and murder. Ask any lawyer. Intent is everything.
What? Is there a homicide case in this thread I'm not aware of?

You can't apply the rules of a homicide case to any argument in the world.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:12 PM
 
9,961 posts, read 17,477,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinArmageddons View Post
...Yeah we do.

Most places have laws that make it illegal to actually carry a sharpened blade past a certain length on your person.
Hell, we still have laws in some states prohibiting carrying a Bowie knife...

Bowie knife - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
In 1837, the year after Bowie’s death at the Alamo, the Alabama legislature passed laws imposing a $100 transfer tax on 'Bowie' knives and decreeing that anyone carrying a Bowie knife who subsequently killed a person in a fight would be charged with premeditated murder.[31] Louisiana and Virginia prohibited the concealed carrying of any Bowie knife,[32][33] while Mississippi made such knives illegal when carried concealed or when used as a dueling weapon.[25] In Tennessee, the use of Bowie knives to settle disputes on the spot so alarmed state legislators that in 1838 they not only made the concealed carrying of a Bowie knife a criminal felony, but also prohibited the use of a Bowie knife in any altercation, regardless of self-defense or other mitigating excuse:

"That if any person carrying any knife or weapon known as a Bowie knife...or any knife or weapon that shall in form, shape, or size resemble a Bowie knife, on a sudden encounter, shall cut or stab another person with such knife or weapon, whether death ensues or not, such person so stabbing or cutting shall be guilty of a felony, and upon conviction thereof shall be confined in the jail and penitentiary house of this State, for a period of time not less than three years, nor more than fifteen years."[31]
[34]

Ironically, in modern-day Texas, the state Jim Bowie died defending, the carrying of a Bowie knife "on or about one's person" is specifically prohibited under state law.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:13 PM
 
1,229 posts, read 1,145,004 times
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20 people were attacked by a knife wielding perp. all survived, thats why.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:17 PM
 
Location: under a rock
1,487 posts, read 1,703,573 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pch1013 View Post
Anyway, I'm all for banning cars. I'd feel a lot safer on my motorcycle then.
You guys are even worse! With your popping wheelies, leather chaps and loud rock music. Get off my lawn!
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:17 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
8,996 posts, read 10,439,802 times
Reputation: 5752
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamBarrow View Post
Well actually, I don't. My argument pertains only to the ultimate outcome of the legality of it. That outcome would include the results of any use, however much or little the population chooses to do so.

What? Is there a homicide case in this thread I'm not aware of?

You can't apply the rules of a homicide case to any argument in the world.
One of the issues being discussed is whether or not it's relevant that most car deaths are accidental, as opposed to gun deaths (though I don't actually know what proportion of those are accidental). Another word for a non-accidental death by firearm, or by car, is "murder."

I happen to think it is relevant. I also think that automobile transportation is so overwhelmingly useful (and even life-saving, in many situations) that the yearly death toll, as unfortunate as it is, can be justified in light of the social usefulness of cars.

But since you apparently can't, or won't, discern the difference between machines designed for transportation that are only rarely used to kill people intentionally, and machines designed for killing that are quite often used for their intended purpose, I don't suppose there's any point in continuing this discussion.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:19 PM
 
6,137 posts, read 4,853,557 times
Reputation: 1516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinebar View Post
Stupid threads and comparisons such as this is an insult to twenty young lives who won't live to see another Christmas.

Shame on you.

Gun Deaths in America: Gun deaths outpace motor vehicle deaths in at least 10 states.
I have to address this again.

So, Cinebar, what about the THOUSANDS of kids killed by cars. Thousands. Every year. Sandy Hook replayed over, and over, and over, and over again.

Do you want to ban cars. I'll bet you don't. Because even to you, as a gun grabber, everything is relative.

You think that the peoples' right to own cars is worth death. That's a price you are willing to pay. Am I faulting you for that? No, I'm not taking a position there. You don't on the other hand believe that the second amendment is worth a few deaths. Those are your priorities, and hey, that's fine. But don't try to play this self righteousness on me. I'm not stupid.
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