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Then perhaps the laws should be changed to fit their "true purpose". All gun owners of certain type required to drill 6 times a week or face prison and fines...
Why else do you think that the requirements for citizens were eased in the 1820s.
Those land owners who paid taxes were tired of all that militia duty heifer dung.
So they suckered in as many as possible to reduce their chances for "Selective Service".
There are no natural rights. All rights exist only by law.
I think you have that backwards.
Rights existed before governments and before law.
Governments were instituted to help secure those rights, as in mutual cooperation in defense of person and property.
"His rights are such as existed by the law of the land long antecedent to the organization of the State, and can only be taken from him by due process of law, and in accordance with the Constitution. ... He owes nothing to the public so long as he does not trespass upon their rights. "
Hale vs Henkel, 201 U.S. 43.
Okay, one more time:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Non-sense and just overused collection of words?
So what is your interpretation of those words then? You explain and we can present our points. Finally said something more concrete. I went through the thread and you simply asked a question and I replied. Instead why not present your point instead of going around the bush.
I have a reply but if you want to continue, you explain those words and how you understand them. It would be great if they are supported by the Founding Fathers writings and actions to support your claim becuase if not you simply are giving YOUR interpretation without any fair support. Take care.
Philosophically speaking, there are no true inherent rights. What we consider a "right" is ALWAYS a privilege bestowed by the larger community onto members of that community.
Inherently, you have no right to live, you have no right not to be tortured, you have no right to be treated just and fairly.
All of these are mere privileges that a community collectively decides to grant to its members. By labeling it a "right," all we are saying is that in case of a violation (or preclusion) of that "right," you have guaranteed legal recourse.
So what is your interpretation of those words then? You explain and we can present our points. Finally said something more concrete. I went through the thread and you simply asked a question and I replied. Instead why not present your point instead of going around the bush.
Where the heck have you been? What the heck have you been reading? The least you could do is explain why you never bother to even mention those words in you quotations.
Quote:
I have a reply but if you want to continue, you explain those words and how you understand them. It would be great if they are supported by the Founding Fathers writings and actions to support your claim becuase if not you simply are giving YOUR interpretation without any fair support. Take care.
Go back and read. Most of my posts in this thread (and many similar) explain my position. But I know why you're rather have a conversation by excluding those words.
What do you think is the origin/reason some people came up and/or support the natural rights view? Take care.
Contrary to popular belief, the Declaration of Independence was not a foundational document; it was a declaration of our independence from the colonial rule by the English Monarchy, and an act of war. It was also, idealistically, a pretty piece of propaganda! Likewise, it may come as a surprise (even a shock) for some to learn that Thomas Jefferson’s ideas about natural rights were not adopted by the framers of our Constitution. (Jefferson was not a framer of the Constitution. He was serving as Ambassador to France at the time of the Constitutional Convention; and except for his correspondence with some of the delegates, what resulted was largely the work of James Madison. Even his draft Constitution and Declaration of Rights for Virginia was rejected in favor of the model of George Mason.) Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights; that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed . . . ." The framework of our government, however, did not incorporate the ideals expressed by Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence. The intoxicating ideas of Rousseau and Locke that Jefferson so admired, and that inspired our revolution (and that of France as well), gave way to a more sober expression of our rights and freedoms in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. The framers of our Constitution created a nation of laws and not men; which represents a compromise between the rights of individuals and the power of the state. All men are not created equal, they are equal under the law; and the rights to "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" are not unalienable, they are subject to law. In this compromise - this social contract that is our Constitution - rests the security for our individual rights and liberty.
No one or the Federal government is suggesting a total ban on guns. Why is that hard to understand?
very few people are talking about a total ban......but
""The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person.""" James Madison, father of the constitution
the 2nd amendment is very specific...the RIGHT of the PEOPLE shall not be INFRINGED
""""That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and their own state, or the United States, or for the purpose of killing game; and no law shall be passed for disarming the people or any of them, unless for crimes committed, or real danger of public injury from individuals; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up: and that the military shall be kept under strict subordination to and be governed by the civil powers."""-- James Madison
the 2nd amendment is very specific...the RIGHT of the PEOPLE shall not be INFRINGED
yes there ARE EXCEPTIONS:
yes if convicted of a crime you would lose that right..just like a felon loses the right to vote
yes if you are COMMITTED to an institution because you are a danger to society you would lose that right....as the gun man in CT SHOULD have been...but because liberals say that institutions are 'in-humane', we have a major problem of people with mental illness walking right next to us
""" the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed""""
keep= own
bear= carry
the right of the PEOPLE to own and carry arms shall not be infringed
the point is that you could BAN all guns COMPLETELY, and it wont stop something like this
it wont stop criminals and gangs from having guns...especially the ALREADY SEVERELY REGULATED assault FULL automatic gins like an UZI
thinks about this
Cocaine is COMPLETELY ILLEGAL.....competely BANNED.......even in the smallest amounts....yet we have a severe cocaine dealing problem
every year our agencies SIEZE over 150,000 KILOGRAMS of cocaine a year...and that is only about 1% of what is smuggled into the USA yearly.
1.5 million United States residents use cocaine at least once per month -a number that has remained relatively unchanged over the past decade, even though it is completely illegal, and their is a so-called "war on drugs"
New York and Delaware were the two states with the highest percentage of cocaine treatment admissions to hospitals and rehab facilities. For New York, that number was 212 admissions per 100,000 residents aged 12 or older.
banning guns will do NOTHING to prevent what happened..it will only BOLDEN the gangs and crooks because they will be the ones with the guns
BANNING GUNS gets more COPS and innocent civilians KILLED
The Declaration of Independence IS Part of American Law
Professor John Eidsmoe writes:
"The role of the Declaration of Independence in American law is often misconstrued. Some believe the Declaration is simply a statement of ideas that has no legal force whatsoever today. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Declaration has been repeatedly cited by the U.S. Supreme Court as part of the fundamental law of the United States of America.
"The United States Code Annotated includes the Declaration of Independence under the heading 'The Organic Laws of the United States of America' along with the Articles of Confederation, the Constitution, and the Northwest Ordinance. Enabling acts frequently require states to adhere to the principles of the Declaration; in the Enabling Act of June 16, 1906, Congress authorized Oklahoma Territory to take steps to become a state. Section 3 provides that the Oklahoma Constitution 'shall not be repugnant to the Constitution of the United States and the principles of the Declaration of Independence.' (Christianity and the Constitution, pp. 360-361)
If you don't believe this - go to the nearest Federal Repository of Documents and look up the Statutes at Large of the United States of America.
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