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Old 04-20-2013, 04:32 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,258,614 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
The Violence Prevention Center reported that in that in 2010 “there were only 230 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm” reported to the F.B.I.’s Uniform Crime Reports.

Compare that with the number of criminal gun homicides in the same year: 8,275. (That’s not counting gun suicides or unintentional shootings.)

Or compare it with the number of Americans killed by guns since Newtown: 3,531."

The NRA says that guns are used a million times a year for self-defense, but they do not say how they obtain that number other than conjecture. And I would suspect that many of those incidents of "self-defense" are the variety where a homeowner hears a weird noise in the middle of the night, creeps around the house with their rifle, and thinks, "good, I scared the intruders away."


Gun Self-Defense Statistics - NYTimes.com
This thread should have stayed in great debates...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
It was linked earlier in the thread, maybe page 3.

"Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000, Vol 16, Issue 1

Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer
Saint Louis University Public Law Review
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
I just noticed the site I linked to earlier requires a purchase, here's a free site.

EBSCO Publishing Service Selection Page

If that one doesn't work use this one and click "pdf Full text".

http://web.ebscohost.com/ehost/detai...9h&AN=11303489
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Old 04-20-2013, 05:09 PM
 
Location: on the edge of Sanity
14,268 posts, read 18,925,638 times
Reputation: 7982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Maybe that's because criminals know the house has guns.
When I lived in this city a few years ago, I remember when there was a home invasion and the perpetrators stole the victims' guns.

[url=http://www.nbc-2.com/story/10690911/guns-stolen-in-bonita-springs-home-invasion]Guns stolen in Bonita Springs home invasion - NBC-2.com WBBH News for Fort Myers, Cape Coral & Naples, Florida[/url]

So I decided to Google a few words to see if that home invasion was unique. In fact, not only do criminals steal guns from homes, they use them to commit other crimes. There are too many to list, so here are a few recent articles about home invasions or burglaries in which guns were stolen.

[url=http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=8983034]Oakwood gun stolen during another home invasion | abc11.com[/url]

[url=http://www.connectamarillo.com/news/story.aspx?id=717294]Firearms stolen in Amarillo home invasion : News : ConnectAmarillo.com[/url]

[url=http://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/sheriff-jewelry-guns-stolen-in-home-burglary/article_ddc91eb4-a5e7-11e2-91c4-001a4bcf887a.html]Sheriff: Jewelry, guns stolen in home burglary[/url]
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Old 04-20-2013, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,226 posts, read 26,178,741 times
Reputation: 15622
From the St Louis Law Review from 1999, uterly captivating, have there been any studies since then??


Quote:
Using algebraic symbols, let the number in the group be Ni where i is either police or civilians. The probability of an encounter where deadly force is appropriately used is Ei; thus the number of encounters is Ni Ei . The probability of a person being armed, given an encounter, is Ai. The probability of the armed person being able to use the firearm is Ui. The probability of firing the gun, given the capability of use, is Fi. The probability of hitting the felon upon firing is Hi. The probability of death for the felon who is hit is Di. The number of felons who die as the result of being shot by the police or civilians is Mi. The identity is thus: (1)
Mi = Ni Ei Ai Ui Fi Hi Di
for each of the two groups, police and civilians. [Page 225]
Next, consider the ratio of the equations for the two groups. It doesn't matter which group is in the numerator, but let us place the police there. The result is2)
Mp =Np Ep Ap Up Fp Hp DpMcNc Ec Ac Uc Fc Hc Dc
Now, consider the ratios of these numbers and probabilities, one at a time.
The number of felons who are in contact with the police in an adversarial relationship, Np Ep, is related to the number of arrests made by the police on felony charges. Some of those arrested will be found not guilty of the crime with which they are charged and others will have some or all of the charges dropped due to lack of evidence. In 1994, there were 808,647 arrests for murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.[25]

and then the conclusion, who can argue.


Quote:
Without the civilian guns being used to deter and stop crimes, the numbers of completed crimes could well double. It would undoubtedly be the case that increased gun ownership would further reduce crime. [Page 245]
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Old 04-20-2013, 05:38 PM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,557,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
No, I was referring to the NRA, not the Brady campaign. I know they say 2 million, but that is clearly ludicrous, so I said "over a million."

There is no recent high-quality data on how often guns are legitimately used for self-defense. And researchers have noted that even when surveys are done, on further analysis it shows that most of the occasions reported as self-defense are escalating arguments in which someone finally pulls a gun.

Page 3: Gun Debate Revives Questions About Self-Defense - ABC News

Not sure how you could just pretend that you didn't see this:Even we take the lowest number from the hardcore antigun people, it still saves a magnitude amount of people than it murders.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:12 PM
 
25,841 posts, read 16,517,815 times
Reputation: 16025
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark6052 View Post
Take a moment to lookup sights such as gunssavelives.net or keepandbears.com
Read some of the storys about the average person using a gun to stop a crime. "It takes A good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun."
I liked the story of a man using his revolver to shoot back at a criminal on a shooting spree; saving a cops life. oh yeah the cop was pinned down while holding his ar-15.
Some years ago I was able to stop a killing. A man stabbing of a woman, the guy had a knife, I had a gun. you know the old saying dont we.
Your chances of saving someone's life with a gun are about as good as you winning the lottery. Why don't you gun strokers drop the "guns save lives" thing? The odds of that happening are ridiculous.

You learning First Aid and CPR and carrying an AED instead of a gun makes you about 10,000X more likely to save a life than carrying a gun.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Lost in Texas
9,827 posts, read 6,933,716 times
Reputation: 3416
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
Your chances of saving someone's life with a gun are about as good as you winning the lottery. Why don't you gun strokers drop the "guns save lives" thing? The odds of that happening are ridiculous.

You learning First Aid and CPR and carrying an AED instead of a gun makes you about 10,000X more likely to save a life than carrying a gun.
I do all the above, including carrying a gun... I guess I have better odds than you..
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:38 AM
 
1,655 posts, read 3,397,386 times
Reputation: 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark6052 View Post
Take a moment to lookup sights such as gunssavelives.net or keepandbears.com
Read some of the storys about the average person using a gun to stop a crime. "It takes A good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun."
I liked the story of a man using his revolver to shoot back at a criminal on a shooting spree; saving a cops life. oh yeah the cop was pinned down while holding his ar-15.
Some years ago I was able to stop a killing. A man stabbing of a woman, the guy had a knife, I had a gun. you know the old saying dont we.

Never bring a knife to a gun fight ?
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:16 AM
 
58,992 posts, read 27,275,092 times
Reputation: 14268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Firearms by law, must be locked up. Criminals that break into houses aren't usually armed, unless it's a drug house.

I think criminals don't usually have a gun, because they aren't expecting any one to be armed and ready to shoot.
" Criminals that break into houses aren't usually armed, unless it's a drug house.

I guess you have statistics to back this up or are you just talking out of your a.s?

In the words of many anti gunners, "if it saves just 1 life, it is worth it".

You need to educate yourself on what happens in the REAL world!

There are THOUSANDS of stories like this.

"[SIZE=2]10 Stories That Prove Guns Save Lives. There are thousands of good and decent Americans who are alive today precisely because they had guns. Gun control advocates might think the world would be a better place if those people and the ones you're about to read about were dead and the people menacing them had gotten away with their crimes, but those of us who are serious about our Second Amendment rights disagree.[/SIZE]
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:41 AM
 
25,841 posts, read 16,517,815 times
Reputation: 16025
Quote:
Originally Posted by freightshaker View Post
I do all the above, including carrying a gun... I guess I have better odds than you..
You must be a paramedic or a cop or just off a little I guess.
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
22,216 posts, read 21,658,893 times
Reputation: 7608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
" Criminals that break into houses aren't usually armed, unless it's a drug house.

I guess you have statistics to back this up or are you just talking out of your a.s?

In the words of many anti gunners, "if it saves just 1 life, it is worth it".

You need to educate yourself on what happens in the REAL world!

There are THOUSANDS of stories like this.

"[SIZE=2]10 Stories That Prove Guns Save Lives. There are thousands of good and decent Americans who are alive today precisely because they had guns. Gun control advocates might think the world would be a better place if those people and the ones you're about to read about were dead and the people menacing them had gotten away with their crimes, but those of us who are serious about our Second Amendment rights disagree.[/SIZE]
Once again, I will point out that I'm talking about New Zealand.

NZ has quite a low Murder rate compared to the US and a gun ownership rate off 25% of the US.

If the gun ownership rate went up here, would the murder rate come down?
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