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We all should know the actual meaning of the word 'liberal', but I see how it's been totally hi-jacked by politicians, especially in the US, merely as a meaningless accusation, like 'communist'. How can people be so blind and just accept this transparently agenda-driven debate?
Being a socialist, being against gun rights, being an environmentalist - these have nothing to do with being a liberal. Isn't socialism authoritarian and the OPPOSITE of liberality? Free market capitalism would better reflect true liberalism.
Some things, I kind of agree with to an extent, like abortion and gay rights, but on the whole, I see that a whole raft of totally unrelated issues have been lumped together as being 'liberal' or conservative.
We all should know the actual meaning of the word 'liberal', but I see how it's been totally hi-jacked by politicians, especially in the US, merely as a meaningless accusation, like 'communist'. How can people be so blind and just accept this transparently agenda-driven debate?
Being a socialist, being against gun rights, being an environmentalist - these have nothing to do with being a liberal. Isn't socialism authoritarian and the OPPOSITE of liberality? Free market capitalism would better reflect true liberalism.
Some things, I kind of agree with to an extent, like abortion and gay rights, but on the whole, I see that a whole raft of totally unrelated issues have been lumped together as being 'liberal' or conservative.
That's why there is now the term "classic liberalism" to differentiate true liberalism from modern liberalism. Modern liberalism is just another way of saying left wing. It's true that it's not strictly accurate but that's just the way it is. Kind of like it is worthless to argue that Nazism wasn't right wing. It wasn't, but it's so ingrained in public consciousness that it's useless to argue the point.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2
That's why there is now the term "classic liberalism" to differentiate true liberalism from modern liberalism. Modern liberalism is just another way of saying left wing. It's true that it's not strictly accurate but that's just the way it is. Kind of like it is worthless to argue that Nazism wasn't right wing. It wasn't, but it's so ingrained in public consciousness that it's useless to argue the point.
American conservatives are stupid if they think most liberals truly want a Communist a country. Hollywood is an example of something that is extremely commercial yet oh so liberal. Many liberals are pretty darn materialistic, when it comes down to it.
Socially I'm very liberal; I think marijuana should be legal, I am in favor of gay marriage, I am pro-choice, and I am pretty much pro-anything that isn't harmful to other people. Long as nobody's getting hurt and I don't have to look at it, smell it, or pay for it, I don't really care what you do. So if there's no compelling reason to be against something, I'm probably for it or at least apathetic on the issue.
Financially I am frugal and I expect my government to be the same way. I hate waste and graft. I am pro-regulation and pro-social safety net, and I feel that those two areas are not responsible (or at least only marginally responsible) for the crisis we find ourselves in. If I'm going to pay my taxes to the government, I feel the government is required and morally obligated to make the best possible use of them. However I think entitlements should be means-tested and welfare for life should definitely not exist.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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^^ Likewise and pretty much agreed with all your positions, which actually seem more like classic Libertarian values of giving folks the maximum freedoms possible, with the least amount of guvmint interference.
Although I think where modern Liberalism usually parts company there, is in the additional recognition of collective responsibility for each other as a society (beyond just the individual), and in the expectation that government is often simply the most logical and efficient mechanism for administering those kinda large-scale social needs. Which BTW, are no more ''socialistic'' than recognizing the federal responsibility for maintaining the military, food and drug standards, enforcing constitutional liberties, administering disaster relief, etc..
In fact I always find it so odd that the folks who most carry on about ''personal Freedom'', ''Rights'' and enforcing ''the Constitution''... are also usually the very same ones advocating authoritarian governments and policies, constitutional changes, and federal interference in everything from marriage and sexuality, to folks having control over their own bodies!
1. Liberals believe individuals should doubt their own truths and consider fairly and open-mindedly the truths of others. This is at the very heart of liberalism. Liberals understand, as Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes once observed, that "time has upset many fighting faiths." Liberals are skeptical of censorship and celebrate free and open debate.
2. Liberals believe individuals should be tolerant and respectful of difference. It is liberals who have supported and continue to support the civil rights movement, affirmative action, the Equal Rights Amendment and the rights of gays and lesbians. (Note that a conflict between propositions 1 and 2 leads to divisions among liberals on issues like pornography and hate speech.)
3. Liberals believe individuals have a right and a responsibility to participate in public debate. It is liberals who have championed and continue to champion expansion of the franchise; the elimination of obstacles to voting; "one person, one vote;" limits on partisan gerrymandering; campaign-finance reform; and a more vibrant freedom of speech. They believe, with Justice Louis Brandeis, that "the greatest menace to freedom is an inert people."
4. Liberals believe "we the people" are the governors and not the subjects of government, and that government must treat each person with that in mind. It is liberals who have defended and continue to defend the freedom of the press to investigate and challenge the government, the protection of individual privacy from overbearing government monitoring, and the right of individuals to reproductive freedom. (Note that libertarians, often thought of as "conservatives," share this value with liberals.)
5. Liberals believe government must respect and affirmatively safeguard the liberty, equality and dignity of each individual. It is liberals who have championed and continue to champion the rights of racial, religious and ethnic minorities, political dissidents, persons accused of crime and the outcasts of society. It is liberals who have insisted on the right to counsel, a broad application of the right to due process of law and the principle of equal protection for all people.
6. Liberals believe government has a fundamental responsibility to help those who are less fortunate. It is liberals who have supported and continue to support government programs to improve health care, education, social security, job training and welfare for the neediest members of society. It is liberals who maintain that a national community is like a family and that government exists in part to "promote the general welfare."
7. Liberals believe government should never act on the basis of sectarian faith. It is liberals who have opposed and continue to oppose school prayer and the teaching of creationism in public schools and who support government funding for stem-cell research, the rights of gays and lesbians and the freedom of choice for women.
8. Liberals believe courts have a special responsibility to protect individual liberties. It is principally liberal judges and justices who have preserved and continue to preserve freedom of expression, individual privacy, freedom of religion and due process of law. (Conservative judges and justices more often wield judicial authority to protect property rights and the interests of corporations, commercial advertisers and the wealthy.)
9. Liberals believe government must protect the safety and security of the people, for without such protection liberalism is impossible. This, of course, is less a tenet of liberalism than a reply to those who attack liberalism. The accusation that liberals are unwilling to protect the nation from internal and external dangers is false. Because liberals respect competing values, such as procedural fairness and individual dignity, they weigh more carefully particular exercises of government power (such as the use of secret evidence, hearsay and torture), but they are no less willing to use government authority in other forms (such as expanded police forces and international diplomacy) to protect the nation and its citizens.
10. Liberals believe government must protect the safety and security of the people, without unnecessarily sacrificing constitutional values. It is liberals who have demanded and continue to demand legal protections to avoid the conviction of innocent people in the criminal justice system, reasonable restraints on government surveillance of American citizens, and fair procedures to ensure that alleged enemy combatants are in fact enemy combatants. Liberals adhere to the view expressed by Brandeis some 80 years ago: "Those who won our independence ... did not exalt order at the cost of liberty."
It's not my fault a bunch of low lives have taken a term for hostage.
I don't think that you're liberal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoJiveMan
1. Liberals believe individuals should doubt their own truths and consider fairly and open-mindedly the truths of others. This is at the very heart of liberalism. Liberals understand, as Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes once observed, that "time has upset many fighting faiths." Liberals are skeptical of censorship and celebrate free and open debate.
2. Liberals believe individuals should be tolerant and respectful of difference. It is liberals who have supported and continue to support the civil rights movement, affirmative action, the Equal Rights Amendment and the rights of gays and lesbians. (Note that a conflict between propositions 1 and 2 leads to divisions among liberals on issues like pornography and hate speech.)
3. Liberals believe individuals have a right and a responsibility to participate in public debate. It is liberals who have championed and continue to champion expansion of the franchise; the elimination of obstacles to voting; "one person, one vote;" limits on partisan gerrymandering; campaign-finance reform; and a more vibrant freedom of speech. They believe, with Justice Louis Brandeis, that "the greatest menace to freedom is an inert people."
4. Liberals believe "we the people" are the governors and not the subjects of government, and that government must treat each person with that in mind. It is liberals who have defended and continue to defend the freedom of the press to investigate and challenge the government, the protection of individual privacy from overbearing government monitoring, and the right of individuals to reproductive freedom. (Note that libertarians, often thought of as "conservatives," share this value with liberals.)
5. Liberals believe government must respect and affirmatively safeguard the liberty, equality and dignity of each individual. It is liberals who have championed and continue to champion the rights of racial, religious and ethnic minorities, political dissidents, persons accused of crime and the outcasts of society. It is liberals who have insisted on the right to counsel, a broad application of the right to due process of law and the principle of equal protection for all people.
6. Liberals believe government has a fundamental responsibility to help those who are less fortunate. It is liberals who have supported and continue to support government programs to improve health care, education, social security, job training and welfare for the neediest members of society. It is liberals who maintain that a national community is like a family and that government exists in part to "promote the general welfare."
7. Liberals believe government should never act on the basis of sectarian faith. It is liberals who have opposed and continue to oppose school prayer and the teaching of creationism in public schools and who support government funding for stem-cell research, the rights of gays and lesbians and the freedom of choice for women.
8. Liberals believe courts have a special responsibility to protect individual liberties. It is principally liberal judges and justices who have preserved and continue to preserve freedom of expression, individual privacy, freedom of religion and due process of law. (Conservative judges and justices more often wield judicial authority to protect property rights and the interests of corporations, commercial advertisers and the wealthy.)
9. Liberals believe government must protect the safety and security of the people, for without such protection liberalism is impossible. This, of course, is less a tenet of liberalism than a reply to those who attack liberalism. The accusation that liberals are unwilling to protect the nation from internal and external dangers is false. Because liberals respect competing values, such as procedural fairness and individual dignity, they weigh more carefully particular exercises of government power (such as the use of secret evidence, hearsay and torture), but they are no less willing to use government authority in other forms (such as expanded police forces and international diplomacy) to protect the nation and its citizens.
10. Liberals believe government must protect the safety and security of the people, without unnecessarily sacrificing constitutional values. It is liberals who have demanded and continue to demand legal protections to avoid the conviction of innocent people in the criminal justice system, reasonable restraints on government surveillance of American citizens, and fair procedures to ensure that alleged enemy combatants are in fact enemy combatants. Liberals adhere to the view expressed by Brandeis some 80 years ago: "Those who won our independence ... did not exalt order at the cost of liberty."
This is well said and spot on.
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Free market capitalism would better reflect true liberalism.
