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Old 12-24-2012, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,560,806 times
Reputation: 14692

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Quote:
Originally Posted by saykinriseo View Post
Because Republicans really do things differently? No taxes for anyone, tax breaks for the "job creators" (those making billions by sending jobs to China), invading sovereign nations for financial gain, desperately trying to keep anyone that isn't American out (as if we all aren't immigrants ourselves, except for Native Americans), and trying to pass legislation that makes Christianity our nation's religion in all but name.

So, I agree. To get different results you actually have to DO something different.
Republicans take care of business...when business grows, people have jobs and the economy grows. Republicans actually know what side of the bread the butter goes on. Liberals just want to take, take take but you, eventaully, run out of people to take from.

As to those jobs that were sent to China...they went because it's cheaper to produce goods there. Fix that problem and the jobs will come back. You can fix that problem one of two ways. Either make American labor cheaper than Chinese labor (which might not work because China is an emerging market so they may stay anyway) OR refuse to buy anything not made in the USA. THAT will work but you won't have cheap disposable goods. You'll have to do without. It'll never happen....

....Just keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.....Like THAT will ever happen...
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,780,510 times
Reputation: 20674
Unemployment/underemployment of the so-called generation Y is a global situation, and a long time coming.

The bubble economies, dot com., housing and commodities were brief economic enviornments that allowed many to sustain the collective hopeful fantasy that it was somehow magicly sustainable and the "American Dream" was intact.

The best and brightest from Ivy League schools continue to flock to Wall Street and Washington's permanent culture because making money is more important than making anything.

Blaming any president or a political party is akin to entitlement, no different than welfare.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Duluth, MN
101 posts, read 219,423 times
Reputation: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Republicans take care of business...when business grows, people have jobs and the economy grows. Republicans actually know what side of the bread the butter goes on. Liberals just want to take, take take but you, eventaully, run out of people to take from.

As to those jobs that were sent to China...they went because it's cheaper to produce goods there. Fix that problem and the jobs will come back. You can fix that problem one of two ways. Either make American labor cheaper than Chinese labor (which might not work because China is an emerging market so they may stay anyway) OR refuse to buy anything not made in the USA. THAT will work but you won't have cheap disposable goods. You'll have to do without. It'll never happen....

....Just keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.....Like THAT will ever happen...
Republicans DO take care of business. JUST business. There are people involved in all of this too. Real, live, struggling people. Even entertaining the notion of cheapening the American workforce (as if $7.25/hour is too much) show what conservatives think. Out of all the people I know that voted for Obama (say roughly 25-30), ALL of them had jobs and were not getting any government assistance.

The way to stop jobs going to China is to stop jobs from going to China. If we didn't make it so damn inviting, those jobs would stay here.

Another point: the tax breaks for the "job creators". I totally agree with that. BUT...those "job creators" need to prove that every cent of that tax break went to creating jobs here then. They can have all the tax breaks they want if that happens.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:32 AM
 
1,167 posts, read 1,123,487 times
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Quote:
Only an idiot would believe President Obama is a Marxist.
I guess your right...you have to be an idiot to believe Obama is a Marxist...


List of Obama's Close Friends & Associates


Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn -- Terrorists And Communists



Bernardine Rae Dohrn former leader of the Weather Underground.


David Axelrod also has connections that that stretch back to post-War Chicago communism.


Derrick Bell -- Racist

Andrew Kaczynski says It was perhaps Barack Obama's most intense immersion in the charged campus racial politics of the late 1980s and early 1990s: As President of the Harvard Law Review in the spring of his final year there, 1991, he aligned himself with Professor Derrick Bell's dramatic protest for diversity on the faculty of Harvard Law School.
Carl Davidson -- Maoist-Communist


Davidson was a former leader of the SDS and a Maoist. In the mid 1990s Carl Davidson was leading activist in the Chicago New Party, where he worked closely with New Party member and candidate Barack Obama. He was also one of the organizers for Obama's 2002 anti-war speech. Davidson was the webmaster for the website, Progressives for Obama, which posts blogs from other 60’s radicals like Tom Hayden and Bill Fletcher, who created the website and its agenda.
Frank Marshall Davis -- Communist



Obama had an admitted relationship with someone who was publicly identified as a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). The record shows that Obama was in Hawaii from 1971-1979, where he developed a close relationship, almost like a son, with Davis, listening to his "poetry" and getting advice on his career path. But Obama, in his book, "Dreams From My Father," refers to him repeatedly as just "Frank."
Anita Dunn -- Maoist


Obama administration Communications Director Anita Dunn commended the wisdom of mass murdering Communist Chairman Mao in her address to high school students this past June. Dunn cited Mao as one of her two favorite political philosophers.


Jodie Evans -- Code Pink -- Socialist


Sam Graham-Felsen -- Socialist/Communist


Graham-Felsen ran the Obama campaign's blog. He spent time in France taking part in labor riots, has written for a socialist magazine, hung a communist flag in his home, and was a fan of Marx while at Harvard.

Gregory Galluzzo -- Socialist/Communist Student Of Alinsky


Patrick Gaspard -- Socialist/Communist


Jeff Jones -- Terrorist


Van Jones -- Communist And "Rowdy Black Nationalist"
Jones was the leader and founder of a radical group, the communist revolutionary organization Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement, or STORM.

STORM worked with known communist leaders. It led the charge in black protests against various issues, including a local attempt to pass Proposition 21, a ballot initiative that sought to increase the penalties for violent crimes and require more juvenile offenders to be tried as adults.Speaking to the East Bay Express, Jones said he first became radicalized in the wake of the 1992 Rodney King riots, during which time he was arrested. "I was a rowdy nationalist on April 28th, and then the verdicts came down on April 29th," he said. "By August, I was a communist."
"I met all these young radical people of color -- I mean really radical: communists and anarchists. And it was, like, 'This is what I need to be a part of.' I spent the next 10 years of my life working with a lot of those people I met in jail, trying to be a revolutionary," he said.

Marilyn Katz -- Head of Security -- SDS

Marilyn Katz is a Chicago public relations consultant and political operative, who has known David Axelrod for 30 years. Katz claims it was she who introduced Obama to the "activist network" in Chicago.
Rashid Khalidi -- PLO Spokesman


Rashid Khalidi, an apologist and spokesman for the Palestinian Libertion Organization (PLO), is the Edward Said Professor of Arab Studies at Columbia University, and Director of the Middle East Institute (MEI) at Columbia's School of International and Public Affairs. In his role as MEI Director, Khalidi presides over a $300,000 annual grant from the federal government. He ranks among the most prominent members of the Middle Eastern studies community in the United States. His books are among the most frequently assigned works on the Middle East in American college syllabi. Arab and American media outlets alike seek him out regularly as a leading authority on the Middle East. In the 1990s, Obama and his wife were regular dinner guests at Khalidi's Chicago home. During the 2000 election cycle, Mr. and Mrs. Khalidi organized a fundraiser for Barack Obama's unsuccessful congressional bid.

Mike Klonsky -- Communist

Klonsky is an unabashed communist whose current mission is to spread Marxist ideology in the American classroom. Obama funded him to the tune of nearly $2 million. Obama, moreover, gave Klonsky a broad platform to broadcast his ideas: a "social justice" blog on the official Obama campaign website.

Mike Kruglik -- Socialist/Communist Student Of Alinsky

Taught Barack Obama in the Alinsky method.


The Lumpkins -- Communists
Senior Chicago Communist Party USA member Bea Lumpkin, and her late husband and comrade Frank Lumpkin were longtime supporters and a fans of Barack Obama.

Obama was very close, for many years, to the far left side of Chicago politics -- where the Lumpkins were major players. As a friend, supporter and campaigner for pro-communist Chicago mayor Harold Washington (1983-87), Lumpkin credits the Washington campaigns and the communist/labor/leftist Democrat/Black/Latino alliances they forged, with blazing the way for an Obama presidency.

John L. McKnight -- Socialist Student Of Alinsky

Another of Obama’s "community organizing mentor," McKnight taught Barack about community organizing while they were both working with the Gamaliel Foundation -- a Saul Alinsky production. John McKnight is also a former ACLU director and sits on the board of the National People’s Action (NPA), another leftist community organizing group. He teaches at Northwestern University and he wrote a letter of recommendation to Harvard for Obama.

Saul Mendelson -- Socialist


State Senator Barack Obama probably knew Saul Mendelson through their mutual activism in Independent Voters of Illinois, an organization investigated for communist infiltration as far back as the 1940s.

On March 13th 1998, Saul Mendelson, a lifelong socialist activist died in Chicago. Mendelson had been a member of various Trotskyist factions in the 1930s and '40s before joining the US Socialist Party and later DSA. In 1983 Saul Mendelson played a significant role in the election of Harold Washington.

The Saul Mendelson Memorial Service was held on Sunday, March 29, 1998, at the First Unitarian Church, Chicago.

According to Chicago DSA leader, the late Carl Marx Shier (who addressed the gathering);

At the memorial service held at the 1st Unitarian Church on South Woodlawn, speaker after speaker recounted Saul's contributions...speakers included Deborah Meier...Senator Carol Moseley Braun, Alderman Toni Preckwinkle, State Senator Barak Obama, Illinois House Majority Leader Barbara Flynn Currie and a good friend from New York, Myra Russell.

The concluding remarks were made by an old friend, Harriet Lefley, who is now Professor of Psychology at the University of Miami Medical School.

Deborah Meier was a former Trotskyist and Socialist Party comrade of Saul Mendelson's and a leader of Chicago and Boston DSA.

Alderman Toni Preckwinkle and Illinois House Majority Leader Barbara Flynn Currie, are both leftist Democrats with ties to Chicago's socialist community. Both endorsed Barack Obama in his successful 2004 bid for the US Senate.

Eulogies also came from Quinn Brisben, (Socialist Party presidential candidate 1976, 1992) and David McReynolds (Socialist Party presidential candidate 1980, 2000).
Abner Mikva -- Progressive/Communist


After service in WW2, Abner Mikva studied law at the University of Chicago. In 1949 communist led students went on strike at the City College of New York. Twenty University of Chicago campus leaders met in April that year, to show support for their New York counterparts, Abner Mikva among them. Several of the 20 had communist connections including Elias Snitzer and Sid Socolar, both of whom later took the 5th Amendment during government security hearings when questioned over alleged Communist Party membership.
Linda Rae Murray -- Communist



Linda Rae Murray with Barack Obama and Quentin Young, also left the Communist Party in 1992 and has since worked closely with Committees of Correspondence and Democratic Socialists of America. She is a prominent Chicago health professional and the the immediate past president of Quentin Young's Health and Medicine Policy Research Group. Murray is a leading and very active advocate for "single payer" and has just been elected president of the American Public Health Association -- a post Quentin Young held in 1988.

Alice Palmer -- Communist
In 1995, Alice Palmer represented the state's 13th District, and decided to run for the United States Congress. She hand-picked Barack Obama to run to replace her.

She was an executive board member of the U.S. Peace Council, which the FBI identified as a communist front group, an affiliate of the World Peace Council, a Soviet front group. She participated in the World Peace Council's 1983 Prague Assembly, part of the Soviet launch of the nuclear-freeze movement. In June 1986, while editor of the Black Press Review, she wrote an article for the Communist Party USA's newspaper, the People's Daily World, now the People's Weekly World. It detailed her experience attending the 27th Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and how impressed she was by the Soviet system. Palmer gushed at the "Soviet plan to provide people with higher wages and better education" and spoke of the efficiency of the Soviets' most recent five-year plan, attributing its success to "central planning." She praised their "comprehensive affirmative action program, which they have stuck to religiously -- if I can use the word -- since 1917."

Zach Pollet -- Weatherman

Former Weatherman, Zach Pollet, became ACORN’s political director and the head of ACORN’s Project Vote, now embroiled in voter fraud investigations in several states.

Wade Rathke -- Weatherman
Former Weatherman Rathke is the founder of Association of Community Organizers for Reform Now (ACORN). The group has had its federal funding cut within the last several days over charges of widespread corruption among many of its affiliate offices across the country. The organization was captured on video advising a pair of undercover journalists from Big Government.com on how to evade taxes and set up a brothel featuring underage child sex slaves. Rathke and brother, Dale, have left ACORN after a nearly-$1 million embezzlement scandal. He then founded–surprise–ACORN International.

Joel Rogers -- Founder Of The Socialist New Party
A sociology and law professor at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, Joel Rogers is an influential figure in progressive politics. He is the author of several books, works as a contributing editor for The Nation and Boston Review, and has founded some of the most powerful leftist organizations and coalitions in the United States. Newsweek named Rogers one of the 100 Americans most likely to shape U.S. politics and culture in the 21st century, and Glenn Beck has called him "the man behind [Barack] Obama."

Quentin Young -- Communist and Democratic Socialists Of America
DSA member, former communist and long time Obama friend.
The New Zeal blog is reporting that Dr. Quentin Young has been a close friend, personal physician and political mentor to Barack Obama for more than 20 years. He is the father of the US socialized healthcare movement and proudly admits to having tutored his friend Barack Obama in the subject.

Young, a member of Democratic Socialists of America, was a member of the Young Communist League in his teens. He was also accused of membership of the Bethune Club of the Communist Party ( a party doctor's group) by a government commission investigating the 1968 Democratic Party Convention riots in Chicago.

Young has been the US's most active proponent of "single payer" or socialzed healthcare for decades -- firstly through his medical committee for Human Rights, then his Physicians for a National Health Program and his Health and Medicine Policy Research Group.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,780,510 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post

Republicans take care of business...when business grows, people have jobs and the economy grows. Republicans actually know what side of the bread the butter goes on.

How did that housing bubble work for most people? The premature withdrawal of paper equity fueled the economy for a blip in time and allowed the masses to delude themselves into believing they earned it. It employed the masses while it lasted. Republicans and Democrats did nothing to prevent it, let alone question it. Too many were making too much money.


As to those jobs that were sent to China...they went because it's cheaper to produce goods there. Fix that problem and the jobs will come back. You can fix that problem one of two ways. Either make American labor cheaper than Chinese labor (which might not work because China is an emerging market so they may stay anyway) OR refuse to buy anything not made in the USA. THAT will work but you won't have cheap disposable goods. You'll have to do without. It'll never happen....

70% of our economy depends on consumerism of mostly goods manufactured elsewhere. " Doing without" is a lost value.


....Just keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.....Like THAT will ever happen...
^That's a sign of insanity.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,780,510 times
Reputation: 20674
XXX:

So much time and energy invested in blame and hate.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,560,806 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by saykinriseo View Post
Republicans DO take care of business. JUST business. There are people involved in all of this too. Real, live, struggling people. Even entertaining the notion of cheapening the American workforce (as if $7.25/hour is too much) show what conservatives think. Out of all the people I know that voted for Obama (say roughly 25-30), ALL of them had jobs and were not getting any government assistance.

The way to stop jobs going to China is to stop jobs from going to China. If we didn't make it so damn inviting, those jobs would stay here.

Another point: the tax breaks for the "job creators". I totally agree with that. BUT...those "job creators" need to prove that every cent of that tax break went to creating jobs here then. They can have all the tax breaks they want if that happens.
Yes, look what Reagan did and look at the economy that followed. If you take care of business, business needs workers...when people have jobs and money, they spend money on goods....when people buy goods, business improves...both tax payers and business pay taxes.... It's a vicious cycle of improvement (until people get greedy and the bubble bursts, which is what happened to us. We demanded more and more cheaper goods (so business started leaving our shores to make cheaper goods elsewhere) and we made risky loans all in the name of collecting a commission. Greed will do you in every time but it was OUR greed that killed the good economy NOT the government. The government did what needed to be done to create that economy. We're just too stupid (the majority) to know what side our bread is buttered on.)

By taking care of business you set up an economy in which people have the opportunity for people to take care of themselves and the money to donate to charities that take care of those who cannot take care of themselves.

I disagree. You don't encourage business by puting strings of control on business. That leads to moving the operation to China. Good luck with that. But I just HAVE to say....what about Solyndra? How many jobs were created with the money spent there???? What a waste of tax payer dollars that was. What we need is tax cuts across the board for businesses manufacturing and employing people here. Unfortunately, it will be too late by the time obummer finishes decimating the economy during his second term. The mess he will leave will be too big for one president to fix. But, on the bright side, there may be hope for your grandkids....

You have two choices. Create an employer friendly environment or lose jobs. The American votor has chosen lose jobs. Now, of course they'll sit around and whine about that .

Be careful what you wish...er vote...for....you just might get it.
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Old 12-24-2012, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,560,806 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
^That's a sign of insanity.
Greed will do you in every time. The banks got greedy and made bad loans in the name of commissions to stupid people who didn't realize they cannot borrow their way into prosperity.

However, we would have killed the good economy anyway. We (collectively) kept demanding more, cheaper goods and there was only one way to supply that. Move manufacturing to countries with cheap labor. Once the jobs started leaving, it was only a matter of time. The banks just hurried us along.

Sadly, even if we accepted lower wages and higher prices for those goods now, it wouldn't bring manufacturing back. Because manufacturing moved abroad, emerging markets were created. Manufacturing will stay to serve those markets while our decline continues.

IMO, there is only one way to turn this around and that is to demand American made products and pay whatever price that means we pay. It'll never happen though. We like our stuff too much.

I'll bet other cultures laugh at us. We're our own worst enemy.

And we don't even learn from history. Remember the recession of the 80's? If memory serves me correctly, the auto industry caused that one by offering longer term loans in the name of selling more cars NOW only to find that people in those longer term loans kept their cars longer BECAUSE of those loans. So, 3-5 years later when they expected those people to be moving out of their cars and into newer cars, they didn't. Cars sat on the lots, people got laid off, fewer cars sold, so on and so forth and the next thing you knew we had a recession with major inflation (my first house loan was at 11.5% back in 1980).

Those who fail to learn from histor are destined to repeat it. The bad housing loan fiasco that lead to the bubble bursting is, eerily similar to what the auto industry did. You can neither borrow yourself out of bad times or borrow yourself into good times. When the bill comes due, it all falls apart.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-24-2012 at 09:09 AM..
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,560,806 times
Reputation: 14692
I just wanted to add that I am practicing living without. I don't buy fashionable clothing. I buy basics and wear them until I need to replace them. My van has 140K miles on it and I have no plans to replace it any time soon (while there are those who argue that it costs nearly as much to keep on the road as a newer car, I'm keeping my mechanic (an American) employed by keeping it.). I try to buy American when I must buy (difficult to do these days). My objective is to save myself into a better future. I'm, certainly, not going to sit around and wait for obummer to do it for me. That would be stupidity.

Just in case, I moved a significant portion of IRA into gold and foriegn bonds and will continue to do so as I see sell opportunities for he stocks I hold. I'm very scared of what a second term for obummer means for our economy. I hope I'm wrong but my gut has a long history of being right and it is screaming for me to hunker down and take a protective stance right now.

I wonder what the economy (and our bank accounts) would look like if we refused to buy foriegn goods for the next year? If we lived simpler, made do with what we have instead of replacing perfectly good things because something new came along.
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:09 AM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,308,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
I very, very much give a damn about the black family, mine and others. He's right.
Go pray on that and see what it get you.
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