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Why is it not realistic? You'll have to excuse me that I don't subscribe to your analogy of the world being one big prison yard. No thanks, I'd rather follow the words of George Washington, and stop trying to be a damn empire! We all knows what eventually happens to empires when they get to big for their britches, don't we?
This country is broke! We can no longer afford to play the world cop. I prefer to get our house in order, instead of trying to fix other people's problems.
What would have happened if we had stayed out of WW1. Where would we be right now if we had limited our scope to fighting ONLY the Japanese in WW2. Our Government F*cks it up royally and regularly, no doubt. However, having Allies is NOT Colonialism it's just plain smart. The foolish idea, "If we leave them alone, they'll leave us alone," is what we tell our children, but it's just plain bullsh*t in the Real world of nut jobs, terrorists, and despot dictators.
I absolutely agree with you that charity starts at home. Give what help NOT until it hurts. However, that clearly is not YOUR point. You talk like an isolationist. Isolationism will get you shanked.
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
4,300 posts, read 4,408,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snardley
What would have happened if we had stayed out of WW1. Where would we be right now if we had limited our scope to fighting ONLY the Japanese in WW2. Our Government F*cks it up royally and regularly, no doubt. However, having Allies is NOT Colonialism it's just plain smart. The foolish idea, "If we leave them alone, they'll leave us alone," is what we tell our children, but it's just plain bullsh*t in the Real world of nut jobs, terrorists, and despot dictators.
I absolutely agree with you that charity starts at home. Give what help NOT until it hurts. However, that clearly is not YOUR point. You talk like an isolationist. Isolationism will get you shanked.
Germany declared war on the USA. There was no way to stay out of WWII. Our involvment in WWI made no difference at all in the final outcome of the war. Ironically, it was the US that tried to pursuade the other "allies" not to be so harsh on Germany via The Treaty of Versailles. That treaty alone layed the environment that brought the rise of the Nazi's in Germany. At the end of WWII, there was a concerted effort to NOT repeat that mistake. In doing so, the USA strayed and became an Empire. We have yet to return to a Republic.
What would have happened if we had stayed out of WW1. Where would we be right now if we had limited our scope to fighting ONLY the Japanese in WW2. Our Government F*cks it up royally and regularly, no doubt. However, having Allies is NOT Colonialism it's just plain smart. The foolish idea, "If we leave them alone, they'll leave us alone," is what we tell our children, but it's just plain bullsh*t in the Real world of nut jobs, terrorists, and despot dictators.
I absolutely agree with you that charity starts at home. Give what help NOT until it hurts. However, that clearly is not YOUR point. You talk like an isolationist. Isolationism will get you shanked.
No. More like a non-interventionalist. I'm more concerned about my country and it's people first. This is MY home. My freedoms are NOT being affected by another country. They are on the other hand being affected by an ever expanding government, and nanny state policies. If someone wants to take a poke at us, then we need to hit them back twice as hard, and that's that. You've heard the phrase "friends with all, allies with none" haven't you?
As for WWII as a whole the American people wanted nothing to do with what they called Europe's war. However; our policy toward the Japanese changed all of that. Unfortunately war was inevitable. Japan took the bait, launched the attack on Pearl Harbor, and then Hitler decided to declare war on the US 2 days later.
Germany declared war on the USA. There was no way to stay out of WWII. Our involvment in WWI made no difference at all in the final outcome of the war. Ironically, it was the US that tried to pursuade the other "allies" not to be so harsh on Germany via The Treaty of Versailles. That treaty alone layed the environment that brought the rise of the Nazi's in Germany. At the end of WWII, there was a concerted effort to NOT repeat that mistake. In doing so, the USA strayed and became an Empire. We have yet to return to a Republic.
Economic collapse and Socialism brought the rise of Hitler.
You've heard the phrase "friends with all, allies with none" haven't you?. . .Unfortunately war was inevitable. . . .
Unfortunately, the whole "friends with all, allies with none" doesn't work with a country that is large and successful. We have a target on our back for no other reason than that.
It's very true, war is often inevitable, Just like the war with the Islamic Caliphate. But I also heard the saying, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." I would prefer to stop the Caliphate from reaching our shores than fight it after it gets here, when we will have no allies to assist us because they have already been assimilated by the Caliphate Borg.
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
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Originally Posted by Snardley
Economic collapse and Socialism brought the rise of Hitler.
Yes. But both of those can be attributed to the harshness brought on by the Treaty. Germany was bankrupt and the UK, France, and Russia insisted they pay war reparations. The economic collapse is what helped propel the Nazi's to power as the fledgling Weimar Republic could not overcome the conditions set by the treaty.
Unfortunately, the whole "friends with all, allies with none" doesn't work with a country that is large and successful. We have a target on our back for no other reason than that.
It's very true, war is often inevitable, Just like the war with the Islamic Caliphate. But I also heard the saying, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." I would prefer to stop the Caliphate from reaching our shores than fight it after it gets here, when we will have no allies to assist us because they have already been assimilated by the Caliphate Borg.
Perhaps if we didn't meddle in their affairs in the first place, they wouldn't hate us. I don't buy the "they hate us for our freedoms" crap! Furthermore, I have no fear of Islam becoming the majority religion in the US, or Sharia Law being implemented. Let's not forget we're the ones arming them anyway. We should have minded our business. As Bulldawg said, we've strayed, and became an empire instead of returning to a republic after WWII.
Yes. But both of those can be attributed to the harshness brought on by the Treaty. Germany was bankrupt and the UK, France, and Russia insisted they pay war reparations. The economic collapse is what helped propel the Nazi's to power as the fledgling Weimar Republic could not overcome the conditions set by the treaty.
You say this. I say that. We're getting off in the weeds here. What I hear you saying is we'll never need Allies, we'll never take it up the a$$ from nations who have allies, and we'll never have any international problems as long as we are political isolationists. As well, engaging in the world socially or economically will NEVER jam us up politically because the bonds of friendship are far more powerful then the power of Fear. Really?
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
4,300 posts, read 4,408,318 times
Reputation: 2394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snardley
You say this. I say that. We're getting off in the weeds here. What I hear you saying is we'll never need Allies, we'll never take it up the a$$ from nations who have allies, and we'll never have any international problems as long as we are political isolationists. As well, engaging in the world socially or economically will NEVER jam us up politically because the bonds of friendship are far more powerful then the power of Fear. Really?
We are getting off into weeds. Allies and friends are the same thing. The real question is the definition of an Alliance that is found in it's stipulations. Political alliances that say "if so-so gets attacked, we consider it attack upon the USA" is not what we should be doing. Free Trade alliances and cooperation was preferred. Political and military alliances have done more harm than good to us.
The State of Israel is not mentioned in any plank of the Libertarian Party. Good Libertarians are free to hold whatever view they want on it. However, it is pretty much standard Libertarian thought that we will not give foreign aid to any nation. Any ties to a nation would be one of commerce/business, and not militarily or subsidizing their government/military.
I'm not sure we all hold to the "NO FOREIGN AID" mantra, but certainly no nation building. Unfortunately we (the US) has put itself in the position of mandatory aid. Starting to close less-than-key military installations would be a good start.
As for Israel, I agree with how you defined our stance. In my opinion, Israel should be supported, but that's just my opinion. I do see them as an asset in a region where we have few friends.
Globalist: A national geopolitical policy in which the entire world is regarded as the appropriate sphere for a state's influence.
Libertarians are not globalists, that's for sure.
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