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I'm after common sense regulations that would stop obvious flows of guns to criminals, like the gun show loop hole that even after it's proven those guns were sent to Mexican cartels are still considered legal sales.
The easiest and the most effective way is to up the punishment for criminals.
How many criminals would touch a gun if the penalty for committing a felony with a firearm is to cut the hand off?
We don't need to be that cruel but 10 years mandatory minimal sentence would be a nice start.
It does many things such as getting violent criminals off the street and making criminals not wanting to touch any firearm.
Reading through the threads & news post-Sandy Hook, the gun rights advocates seem to have the same anger at criminals who use guns illegally as gun control advocates. So why don't we target how these criminals get their guns?
It feels like the first logical step to take if we're serious about criminals getting guns illegally is to stop that flow at the source., so does anyone know where these guns that criminals are using are coming from?
It is already illegal. The laws don't work, they never do. It is like legislating against gravity, cause criminals ignore the laws.
The easiest and the most effective way is to up the punishment for criminals.
How many criminals would touch a gun if the penalty for committing a felony with a firearm is to cut the hand off?
We don't need to be that cruel but 10 years mandatory minimal sentence would be a nice start.
It does many things such as getting violent criminals off the street and making criminals not wanting to touch any firearm.
Since when is punishment more effective than prevention? I'm not even getting into that b/c that should be something you can reason through on your own. That doesn't deal w/ the fact that there a common sense regulations that can be put in place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Rossi
It is already illegal. The laws don't work, they never do. It is like legislating against gravity, cause criminals ignore the laws.
What's illegal? The gun sales that we know went from the purchasers to Mexican drug cartels b/c the gov't monitored it happening? B/c that's not illegal.
I find it pathetic that we've had several people come in here and say how certain gun sales are illegal and should be enforced, but then when they find out those gun sales are actually LEGAL, they decide that regulating those sales is pointless.
Why have none of the people who were so up in arms about what they thought was illegal suddenly quiet when they find out that those gun sales were and are still legal?
Since when is punishment more effective than prevention? I'm not even getting into that b/c that should be something you can reason through on your own. That doesn't deal w/ the fact that there a common sense regulations that can be put in place.
What's illegal? The gun sales that we know went from the purchasers to Mexican drug cartels b/c the gov't monitored it happening? B/c that's not illegal.
I find it pathetic that we've had several people come in here and say how certain gun sales are illegal and should be enforced, but then when they find out those gun sales are actually LEGAL, they decide that regulating those sales is pointless.
Why have none of the people who were so up in arms about what they thought was illegal suddenly quiet when they find out that those gun sales were and are still legal?
Straw purchase is illegal.
If you want prevention, start preventing people from wanting to commit crime. Harsh punishment has always been a good deterrence. Go to Saudi and many other Islamic countries, there aren't people who dare to steal because they would lose their hands if they are caught. Say what you want about their freedom, it is a SAFE country to be in.
Keep in mind, that a lot law abiding citizens don't commit crime is not because they don't want to. It is precisely because the punishment is too much for the benefit gained from crime. Imagine a world where every "crime" is done with immunity. What kind of chaos that would be? So, yes punishment works.
I've shown you in two separate posts how straw purchases need to proven first, and only after that are FUTURE purchases illegal. Refute that or go home.
People like you are more comfortable living in bubbles than dealing w/ the truth. Did the fact that of all the straw purchases the ATF monitored under F&F, only ONE ended up in court not tell you there is something wrong w/ how straw purchases are judged?
Why would anyone need to or want to traffic guns that are legally available in the US? Most gun crimes are committed by guns you can buy legally or have someone buy for you legally or buy off the books in the US.
The international gun smuggling story is a Hollywood myth made popular through movies.
not really
most gangs like the uzi, and the mac10(fully auto)...both which are extremely hard(almost impossible) to get legally in the USA
most guns are not even made here:
is uzi american made
is mac10's american made
is glocks american made
is the PKM american made
is the MP5 american made
is the FAL american made
is the G3 american made
is the ak47 or the ak74 american made
is the mp40 american made
is the ak5 american made
is the ak101 american made
is the ar94 american made
is the berretta american made
is the sig amercan made
is the bushmaster american made
the answer to ALL is ...NO
the problem isnt legal guns, or legally obtained guns...its illegal guns
I've shown you in two separate posts how straw purchases need to proven first, and only after that are FUTURE purchases illegal. Refute that or go home.
People like you are more comfortable living in bubbles than dealing w/ the truth. Did the fact that of all the straw purchases the ATF monitored under F&F, only ONE ended up in court not tell you there is something wrong w/ how straw purchases are judged?
Highlighted the illegal part for you.
In the U.S. Congress, Representative Darrell Issa (R–CA–49), chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, and Senator Chuck Grassley (R–IA), ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, have been investigating "gunwalking" operations.[62] On January 27, 2011, Grassley wrote a letter to ATF Acting Director Kenneth E. Melson requesting information about the ATF-sanctioned sale of hundreds of firearms to straw purchasers.
If you want prevention, start preventing people from wanting to commit crime. Harsh punishment has always been a good deterrence. Go to Saudi and many other Islamic countries, there aren't people who dare to steal because they would lose their hands if they are caught. Say what you want about their freedom, it is a SAFE country to be in.
Keep in mind, that a lot law abiding citizens don't commit crime is not because they don't want to. It is precisely because the punishment is too much for the benefit gained from crime. Imagine a world where every "crime" is done with immunity. What kind of chaos that would be? So, yes punishment works.
Not true at all. It's the likelihood of getting caught, not the severity of the punishment, that deters crime.
Look at this illustration. If the penalty for speeding were that you lose your car, but the likelihood of being caught was one in a million, you wouldn't care about the punishment. On the other hand, if the penalty is light ($20 fine), but you had a 90% chance of getting caught, then you would probably NOT speed.
There is a wealth of information supporting this position. Here are two sites;
"While the criminal justice system as a whole provides some deterrent effect, a key
question for policy development regards whether enhanced sanctions or an enhanced
possibility of being apprehended provide any additional deterrent benefits. Research
to date generally indicates that increases in the certainty of punishment, as opposed to
the severity of punishment, are more likely to produce deterrent benefits."
In the U.S. Congress, Representative Darrell Issa (R–CA–49), chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, and Senator Chuck Grassley (R–IA), ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, have been investigating "gunwalking" operations.[62] On January 27, 2011, Grassley wrote a letter to ATF Acting Director Kenneth E. Melson requesting information about the ATF-sanctioned sale of hundreds of firearms to straw purchasers.
All that highlighted phrase is is one senator's opinion of what happened. As far as the facts of F&F go, the only "sanctioning" that the ATF did was when gun sellers would call to report suspicious buyers, the ATF assure those gun sellers they wouldn't be prosecuted or held liable for gun sales to the straw purchasers the ATF was watching.
When are you going to deal w/ the fact that those gun sales that you're supposedly appalled by, were & are still legal sales? Are you ever going to address that or are you going to keep skating around it?
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