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Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
13,583 posts, read 15,657,392 times
Reputation: 14049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex
Good, it's about time! Columbus was a racist tyrant who beat the native Americans, stole their riches and changed forever the tranquility of the western hemisphere.
Changed the "tranquility"? So then, if only Columbus hadn't interfered with the "tranquility", we'd still be witnessing people having their hearts ripped out and thrown down the steps of pyramids, brutal warfare between Indian tribes, and so forth...tranquil indeed...viva la Aztlan and all that...
BTW, what happened to the descendants of Kennewick man? Oh, that's right, they were butchered by the non-Caucasoids who followed them over the Bering Strait that later became known as "Native Americans". Yeah, I'll bet that's one you folks didn't learn about in your publicly funded curriculum.
"In the end, the sad fate of America's Indians represents not a crime but a tragedy, involving an irreconcilable collision of cultures and values. Despite the efforts of well-meaning people in both camps, there existed no good solution to this clash. The Indians were not prepared to give up the nomadic life of the hunter for the sedentary life of the farmer. The new Americans, convinced of their cultural and racial superiority, were unwilling to grant the original inhabitants of the continent the vast preserve of land required by the Indians’ way of life. The consequence was a conflict in which there were few heroes, but which was far from a simple tale of hapless victims and merciless aggressors. To fling the charge of genocide at an entire society serves neither the interests of the Indians nor those of history."
Who ever wrote that failed to recognize that the majority of native tribes people were sedentary, not nomadic.
Several tribes were farming tribes complete with irrigation systems.
The native people were victims, victims that had a mind and heart to fight for their way of life, but still victims.
And from my perspective, it was totally genocide. Don't know what else one would call a bunch of white guys going on to Woodley Island in the middle of the night and killing nearly the whole tribe as they slept.
These peaceful people were murdered for absolutely no reason, and that's not a crime?
....wow....
Who ever wrote that failed to recognize that the majority of native tribes people were sedentary, not nomadic.
Several tribes were farming tribes complete with irrigation systems.
The native people were victims, victims that had a mind and heart to fight for their way of life, but still victims.
And from my perspective, it was totally genocide. Don't know what else one would call a bunch of white guys going on to Woodley Island in the middle of the night and killing nearly the whole tribe as they slept.
These peaceful people were murdered for absolutely no reason, and that's not a crime?
....wow....
Read the article. 80 to 90 percent of American Indians died from European diseases, not murder or war or "genocide". And there were plenty of innocent white victims of Indian aggression as well. Where I live the Mill Creek tribe murdered, raped, tortured, kidnapped, pillaged and terrorized the settlers in the valley for 15 years.
Last edited by WesternPilgrim; 01-09-2013 at 01:35 AM..
Create a new Holiday or way to honor Native Americans. Most (myself included) would be fine with that as it's a worthy honor.
But to do away with a long-recognized (and under-appreciated) holiday in Columbus Day is shameful. There isn't much celebration etc. on Columbus Day but at least we can recognize and appreciate the extreme courage this man had. Probably serves as a hint of inspiration for some people (not necessarily sailing around the world lol) but smaller things in our lives.
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,682,084 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex
Good, it's about time! Columbus was a racist tyrant who beat the native Americans, stole their riches and changed forever the tranquility of the western hemisphere.
He also kidnapped a few of the indians and took them away from their families and back to Spain. Within a couple of generations the indigenous indians of the Caribbean were pretty much extinct.
Quote:
There was a time when people thought the world was flat. Columbus and his courages voyage changed that and what the world is now today. Someone had to take the plunge. Why change history now? It was the beginning of the modern world.
This is a myth all educated people knew the Earth was round, and they knew its circumference. Columbus knew he was not in China, he carried trade goods suitable for primitive people, beads and axes etc. He knew where he was going and what he was going to do. How and why? Hint. He had been to Iceland.
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,682,084 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
Where I live the Mill Creek tribe murdered, raped, tortured, kidnapped, pillaged and terrorized the settlers in the valley for 15 years.
I call BS, document your assertion.
I recommend that you all read 1491 by Charles C. Mann.
One of the interesting facts is Aztecs vs English. As we know the Aztecs committed human sacrifice at a horrific level.
The civilized English didn't, however the number of crimes punished by hanging was very high. The Crown under English law actually killed a higher percentage of its population than Aztecs killed the indios of Central America, and the English killed a lower percentage of its own population than did the French or Spanish.
Compared to the Euros the Aztecs were much less blood thirsty.
Read the article. 80 to 90 percent of American Indians died from European diseases, not murder or war or "genocide". And there were plenty of innocent white victims of Indian aggression as well. Where I live the Mill Creek tribe murdered, raped, tortured, kidnapped, pillaged and terrorized the settlers in the valley for 15 years.
I did read the article. Just because they majority died from disease does not take away the fact that Europeans still slaughtered many of who was left and did so in horrible ways- ie: killing unarmed women and children. When children are purposefully killed, in my eyes, that's genocide. Not to mention, disease was used to cull the population. It's what is done to keep a people from existing. As far as the native people being aggressors, I wonder why. Is it because their land was taken away and their families killed. I would be pissed too.
If Europeans did not do what they did, there would have ever been a problem. The native people started out co-existing with the Europeans. It's when the Europeans tried to control and take things that it became bloody.
So ultimately, who is responsible? The Europeans. And who they did not kill off, they made laws that forbid them to practice their cultural traditions....it is still a 'killing' of a people when everything that identifies them is taken away.
I did read the article. Just because they majority died from disease does not take away the fact that Europeans still slaughtered many of who was left and did so in horrible ways- ie: killing unarmed women and children. When children are purposefully killed, in my eyes, that's genocide. Not to mention, disease was used to cull the population. It's what is done to keep a people from existing. As far as the native people being aggressors, I wonder why. Is it because their land was taken away and their families killed. I would be pissed too.
If Europeans did not do what they did, there would have ever been a problem. The native people started out co-existing with the Europeans. It's when the Europeans tried to control and take things that it became bloody.
So ultimately, who is responsible? The Europeans. And who they did not kill off, they made laws that forbid them to practice their cultural traditions....it is still a 'killing' of a people when everything that identifies them is taken away.
That was very well stated. From a historical perspective, who could forget the "Trail of Tears" where hundreds of friendly Cherokee were forced to march on bloody feet to Okla? The Chief Justice John Marshall had ruled in favor of the Cherokees and their right to keep their Nation. Pres Andrew Jackson (of the $20 bill) refused to enforce the decision, all of which led to one of the saddest chapters in American history. Columbus was a jackal swine.
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