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Maybe, maybe not. But... Washington never said, ”A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who would attempt to abuse them, which would include their own Government.”
Here is the actual quotation, and I'll highlight the differences in red:
The actual quote:
A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well digested plan is requisite: And their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories, as tend to render them independent on others, for essential, particularly for military supplies.
---George Washington's First Annual Message to Congress (January 8, 1790)
I'm repeating the terminology that I hear my gun-owner friends using, in hopes that others like them would understand what I'm talking about. But nice attempt to dodge the actual issue by deliberately deflecting the conversation off onto a tangent. You must be so proud of yourself for engaging in such a nonsensical diversionary tactic.
I would think people would take the time to raise their moral sense before chiming in on a debate over legislation too. Guess we both have to live with realities that disappoint us.
You used the terminology; now own it. Take responsibility for your post; don't try to blame some anonymous 'gun-owner friends' who are not here to defend themselves.
As far as "moral sense," I would posit that without fact-based knowledge, "moral sense" is useless. Again take the car analogy. Suppose people are dying from DUI, and you wish to enact legislation to stop it. But you don't know the first thing about BAC. Maybe you think that it's impossible to be impaired from wine or beer. You might have the most acute 'moral sense' ever, but your legislation will be an inevitable fail.
George Washington never saw a semi-automatic weapon.
George Washington never saw a 30 round magazine clip.
If gun owners all just carried around the weapons that George Washington carried, there would be no problem to address.
Also I doubt very much Washington ever said that. I googled it and the only source I could find was "George Washington on the 2nd Amendment" and also I did find this in his first state of the union address
A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.
We have government coverrups, massive voter fraud taking away the citizens right for free elections, taxation without representation, the stripping off the Constitution, a justice and judicial system that is more and more often at odds with the will of the american people, a paranoid need of the government to spy on its own citizens, a national media that has sold out to the government, as well as the selling of the country to the monied interests of the Federal Reserve and foreign governments and illegal immigration left unchecked.
Do you need a gun to fight back against the government? It certainly seems they want guns to fight back against YOU when the time comes that you decide you want to take back the country and stop its destruction.
Now what are you fixing by removing guns from citizens?
Again with the straw man arguments read the title of the tread, not one person Here has said anything about removing guns from citizens, talking about the fallacy of what is apparently the new rw talking point, citizens need guns to fight the government, because last week it was about arming the good guys, can't wait for the next one.
Wrong. With that mentality, the Constitution does evolve.
Correct, meaning that the Second Amendment could evolve to restrict guns much more than gun-control advocates are calling for.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Yup. Don't get upset when it goes against your preference; acknowledge that you live in community with others which means you don't always get your way.
Then ice cream would have bones.
You can't have one w/out the other. The 2nd can't evolve w/out the entire document. You can't pick and choose, claiming that it's muskets and now it's auto weapons.
BOTH sides need to recognize the community...and the United States Constitution frames what rights and freedoms are guaranteed to it's citizens. And the United States and the majority want the access to weapons.
No one is arguing against back ground checks. No one is arguing around more regulation in paperwork or licensing to carry concealed weapons.
You can't cherry pick your sides and flip-flop your argument. By doing so you've already lost.
Reducing the risk of violence by limiting people only to the guns that they absolutely need - that number and type of guns that facilitate the personal protection intended by the Second Amendment - is society's prerogative even if you want to play with more and different guns than that.
But who is to tell who what they need. And it's society's prerogative to allow American's to have what they want. Even if you don't like it.
And of course this was the American thought process during the the war of independence, right? Since the British were so much more powerful than the Americans, they could not win, at least according to you.
Now just what is soooooo stupid?
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching
of course it isnt, it is the 21st century, and it means just as much now as it did in the 18th century.
So you and your organized militia have your own satellites that you can track the US Army right? Own satellites to enable your smart bombs to attack with precision and accuracy?
What about your militia's navy and air force?
I think it's cute you think you can defeat or defend yourself from the most powerful army in the world. Now maybe you can outlast them in your bunkers....
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