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Old 01-21-2013, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,630 posts, read 19,346,156 times
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I'm not understanding this fixation Obama and liberals have with equality. Folks have varying degrees of skills that are demanded in the market place. Is the goal here to have some unskilled worker live in the same manner as somebody who went to school to develop skills in demand like becoming a doctor?

To me equality means equality under the law and a fair chance to improve your life through the choices and efforts you make. What's the end game in regards to equality for you liberals?
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:25 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
12,755 posts, read 9,599,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
I'm not understanding this fixation Obama and liberals have with equality. Folks have varying degrees of skills that are demanded in the market place. Is the goal here to have some unskilled worker live in the same manner as somebody who went to school to develop skills in demand like becoming a doctor?

To me equality means equality under the law and a fair chance to improve your life through the choices and efforts you make. What's the end game in regards to equality for you liberals?
No.

Equality under the law.

Settle down!
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:35 PM
 
Location: under a rock
1,487 posts, read 1,700,711 times
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The goal is a livable wage, good/safe schools for children, health care that won't make you decide between it or eating, an environment(also known as Mother Earth) that has an equal chance to survive(we need clean water/air/food/etc), a female to earn a days wage equal to that of her male colleague......many many more to list. Also, there is no "end game".
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:39 PM
 
8,391 posts, read 6,270,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
I'm not understanding this fixation Obama and liberals have with equality. Folks have varying degrees of skills that are demanded in the market place. Is the goal here to have some unskilled worker live in the same manner as somebody who went to school to develop skills in demand like becoming a doctor?

To me equality means equality under the law and a fair chance to improve your life through the choices and efforts you make. What's the end game in regards to equality for you liberals?
First everyone isn't equal under the law. If you think poor Americans have the same level of protection from abuse by the law as the wealthy you are insane.

So conservatives use these platitudes about equality before the law or equality of opportunity but don't do a damn thing about the reality that people in fact aren't equal before the law nor do people have equality of opportunity.

So for conservatives before worrying about what President Obama said about inequality why don't conservatives first define and enforce equality before the law and equality of opportunity because there is no way that any sane person can believe that all Americans are treated the same by the law and all Americans have equality of opportunity.

Instead, those phrases are just talking points in favor of the status quo that provides neither and in opposition to ideas that democrats think to improve both.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:44 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 5,442,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
I'm not understanding this fixation Obama and liberals have with equality. Folks have varying degrees of skills that are demanded in the market place. Is the goal here to have some unskilled worker live in the same manner as somebody who went to school to develop skills in demand like becoming a doctor?

To me equality means equality under the law and a fair chance to improve your life through the choices and efforts you make. What's the end game in regards to equality for you liberals?
The goal is obviously equality of outcome but they will of course not admit it. It sounds too much like communism to come out and say it. Virtually all of Obama's campaign was based on it - vilifying Romney because he is rich, and saying the top 1% need to pay more. It's also based on equality of groups rather than equality of individuals. It doesn't matter if one white guy gets turned away from a school or passed over for promotion at a job that a less qualified brown guy gets selected for, because other white guys are already in the school or corporation and that boosts equality of opportunity for brown people. We need to really focus on "representation" of various groups in society according to liberals.

Affirmative action was great in 1970. It serves no useful purpose in 2013. No nation that has a minority President needs affirmative action programs. If you can be black and become elected to the single highest position in the country by a majority of the people, then it's simply absurd to assert we have a systemic problem of discrimination against blacks. We definitely do need discrimination laws so that when discrimination occurs the victims have legal recourse. But a nation with a majority elected chief executive does not have a systemic problem. And systemic problems are what affirmative action programs are there to prevent, not individual cases of discrimination.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,630 posts, read 19,346,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busterkeaton View Post
The goal is a livable wage, good/safe schools for children, health care that won't make you decide between it or eating, an environment(also known as Mother Earth) that has an equal chance to survive(we need clean water/air/food/etc), a female to earn a days wage equal to that of her male colleague......many many more to list. Also, there is no "end game".
A livable wage? Why is anyone entitled to that? The living standards of a country are dependent on the productivity of the economy. You want to earn more learn skills that command more. We all want safe good schools but much of the success of schools occur outside the classroom.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:50 PM
 
Location: under a rock
1,487 posts, read 1,700,711 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
A livable wage? Why is anyone entitled to that? The living standards of a country are dependent on the productivity of the economy. You want to earn more learn skills that command more. We all want safe good schools but much of the success of schools occur outside the classroom.
Exactly, if Walmart can gain privately as much as they wish while we "the taxpayer" get to support their under-payed, underworked(keeping their employees below hours) via food stamps, healthcare, free lunches for their kids(you the taxpayer paying for that again), why shouldn't Walmart, right? I mean, why ask for a livable wage that would take care of most of the burden on the average taxpayer? That sounds ludicrous, am I right? Economics isn't your strong suit is it?
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Rational World Park
4,991 posts, read 4,490,050 times
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Wow, dude doesn't understand equality? Is this really life?
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Chicago
3,391 posts, read 4,465,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
I'm not understanding this fixation Obama and liberals have with equality. Folks have varying degrees of skills that are demanded in the market place. Is the goal here to have some unskilled worker live in the same manner as somebody who went to school to develop skills in demand like becoming a doctor?

To me equality means equality under the law and a fair chance to improve your life through the choices and efforts you make. What's the end game in regards to equality for you liberals?
It is largely a question of degree.

Perfect equality cannot exist, and a certain degree of inequality is consistent with social justice. One person's labor may indeed by worth twice that of another person's. It could be worth three times more, four times more, or even ten times more. For example, I would have no problem if a brilliant heart surgeon earned 10 times more than the person who swept his or her office.

But that's not what we have have in American today.

What we have in America today is a situation where some people are making 300, 400, even 500 times more than the average person. I'm sorry, but nobody can work 500 times harder than anyone else. Nobody's labor is worth 500 times more than anyone else's. That's not an economy. That's just a racket.

Besides degree, there is the question of why inequality exists. When inequality is genuinely the result of some people being harder working or more talented than others, people usually don't get upset about it. No sane person resented the fact Michael Jordan was a better basketball player then they were.

But what we have today in America is a lot of arbitrary inequality. Most inequality has nothing to do with people's talents. It has more to do with the circumstances they were born into. Remember, the vast majority of poor people aren't people who started middle-class and fell. They born poor. Likewise, most of the rich started out life with lots of privilege. That isn't to say they didn't work hard. But a hedge-fund manager who works hard is likely to become a millionaire. A dish washer who works will, in most, simply become a hard-working dishwasher.

The USA now has almost the LOWEST rate of social mobility of any industrialized country. People born in Germany, France, Denmark, Norway, etc have a FAR better chance ending life better off than they started than people in the US. Look it up if you don't believe me.
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:52 PM
 
12,669 posts, read 20,392,432 times
Reputation: 3050
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
I'm not understanding this fixation Obama and liberals have with equality. Folks have varying degrees of skills that are demanded in the market place. Is the goal here to have some unskilled worker live in the same manner as somebody who went to school to develop skills in demand like becoming a doctor?

To me equality means equality under the law and a fair chance to improve your life through the choices and efforts you make. What's the end game in regards to equality for you liberals?
It is selective equality and does not include conservatives, gun owners and bible thumpers.
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