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Old 01-24-2013, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,862 posts, read 24,108,334 times
Reputation: 15135

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus View Post
Sovereign Citizens are nothing more than whiny cry babies, who don't want to obey the laws and pay their taxes. Originated out of a tax protester belief that had nothing to do with the law. The entire "movement" is born out of the con that we are all "Sovereign" citizens when we are not. We are not a Sovereign nation (that is one of the reasons why our founding fathers wanted to get away from England).

If you don't who or what Sov Cits are, I suggest you take a google search and educated yourself. all of their claims are based on fantasy
I've heard of the movement. Don't care. The thread isn't about them.

The question was simple. Do you agree with the statement in the graphic, or not? I do. If you don't, please explain why, as your position goes against the design of our government.

Here's a free tip - you may want to browse a copy of the Declaration of Independence before responding again.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,075,809 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelYell14 View Post
Do you agree with the picture?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelYell14
If not why not?
It is directly contradicted by objective reality.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,075,809 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelYell14 View Post
We never agreed with them...do you remember signing a contract? I sure don't.
Constitutions are not contracts. Unless you are more than 200 years old, your agreement doesn't mean ****.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:29 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,896 posts, read 11,987,093 times
Reputation: 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Well unfortunately the world doesn't function that way, nor does it care what rights you were born with. Do Mexicans have the right to live where ever they want, do my gay friends have a right to marry who they love and be able to live where ever they like? We do not live in a country that is truly free.
Again, the world doesn't care, because there are too many that want to control others! Quite frankly, if you aren't my parents, then f*** you! (I don't mean you personally but you know what I mean). I work, I have a family, own a home, pay my taxes. I haven't killed anyone, nor would I unless my life or my family's life is in danger. I've not stolen. So leave me alone.

As for Mexicans wanting to live where ever they want...hey... you want to live here then you do what the rest of those have done who have LEGALLY immigrated to this country! No problem. However; if you're going to come here, and take handouts, take our jobs, commit crimes, then you need to be sent back to where you came from! As for gays, they should be free from persecution, and free to marry their partner if they so choose. What 2 adults do in their bedroom, and whether or not they want to call it marriage has absolutely no bearing on my life! I personally feel that the government should not be in the marriage business in the first place!

And of course we don't live in a country that is truly free, because as I've said we have too many who feel they need government to lead them every step of the way. My rules are simple, stay the f*** out of my business, and I'll stay the f*** out of yours!
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:40 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,874,717 times
Reputation: 14345
No.

A person born into slavery could never have said, "I'm free because I say I am." That simply wasn't true. While I admire the spirit of Daniel's Facebook pronouncement, the reality is that freedom isn't an absolute. Freedom is an ideal. Ideals are aspirations. We aspire to be free, but that doesn't mean that we aspire to reject laws. We recognize that freedom is a balancing act. I'm not free to do everything I want. I'm not a spoiled child that throws a temper tantrum. I'm an adult, and I recognize that my aspirations are goals that I work toward, that I sacrifice for. I'd like to be free of financial worry, that's an aspiration to work toward. Someone out there might like to murder me. That's their aspiration, but it doesn't work so good for me. The government institutes laws that limit our freedoms, but their goal is to maximize everyone's freedom. I know many anti-government people think that that's untrue, and doubtless the system is flawed, doubtless the government oversteps itself often in restricting our freedoms. But we have redress, we can repeal laws. Just like we repealed prohibition. I would suggest reading up on Locke to understand the nature of the social contract.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:49 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,896 posts, read 11,987,093 times
Reputation: 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
No.

A person born into slavery could never have said, "I'm free because I say I am." That simply wasn't true. While I admire the spirit of Daniel's Facebook pronouncement, the reality is that freedom isn't an absolute. Freedom is an ideal. Ideals are aspirations. We aspire to be free, but that doesn't mean that we aspire to reject laws. We recognize that freedom is a balancing act. I'm not free to do everything I want. I'm not a spoiled child that throws a temper tantrum. I'm an adult, and I recognize that my aspirations are goals that I work toward, that I sacrifice for. I'd like to be free of financial worry, that's an aspiration to work toward. Someone out there might like to murder me. That's their aspiration, but it doesn't work so good for me. The government institutes laws that limit our freedoms, but their goal is to maximize everyone's freedom. I know many anti-government people think that that's untrue, and doubtless the system is flawed, doubtless the government oversteps itself often in restricting our freedoms. But we have redress, we can repeal laws. Just like we repealed prohibition. I would suggest reading up on Locke to understand the nature of the social contract.

Valid points for sure, and I don't disagree with you. With freedom, also comes responsibility, and personal accountability. Now moving on....Yes we repealed prohibition of alcohol. Why do we still have prohibition of cannabis? It's money! We can vote all we want to repeal laws that we don't agree with, but when their is big money behind it, those in DC don't care what the average American thinks! That is the flaw, and those in power will find any way possible to avoid doing the right thing as long as their pockets are being lined, or they're being bribed.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,176,592 times
Reputation: 7875
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1brownsfan View Post
Again, the world doesn't care, because there are too many that want to control others! Quite frankly, if you aren't my parents, then f*** you! (I don't mean you personally but you know what I mean). I work, I have a family, own a home, pay my taxes. I haven't killed anyone, nor would I unless my life or my family's life is in danger. I've not stolen. So leave me alone.

As for Mexicans wanting to live where ever they want...hey... you want to live here then you do what the rest of those have done who have LEGALLY immigrated to this country! No problem. However; if you're going to come here, and take handouts, take our jobs, commit crimes, then you need to be sent back to where you came from! As for gays, they should be free from persecution, and free to marry their partner if they so choose. What 2 adults do in their bedroom, and whether or not they want to call it marriage has absolutely no bearing on my life! I personally feel that the government should not be in the marriage business in the first place!

And of course we don't live in a country that is truly free, because as I've said we have too many who feel they need government to lead them every step of the way. My rules are simple, stay the f*** out of my business, and I'll stay the f*** out of yours!
I don't disagree, was just pointing out that nothing is truly free, there will always be laws that are created by each society that differ from one to the next.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:02 AM
 
1,596 posts, read 1,158,763 times
Reputation: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelYell14 View Post


Do you agree with the picture? If not why not?
You didn't juxtapose rights and powers.

We'd like to see a definitive comparison.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:04 AM
 
1,596 posts, read 1,158,763 times
Reputation: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Constitutions are not contracts. Unless you are more than 200 years old, your agreement doesn't mean ****.
It was a repelican form of government.

Fishscoopers were free.

Now, it's a pejorative to say "Go fish."
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,535,277 times
Reputation: 24780
Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelYell14 View Post


Do you agree with the picture? If not why not?

Nope.

Your "rights" are not whatever you say they are. As a member of a particular society, the society's laws make that call. You and I are fortunate to live in a nation that recognizes more legal freedom than almost any other.
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