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Old 01-25-2013, 10:23 AM
Status: "It Can't Rain All The Time" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: North Pacific
15,755 posts, read 7,564,141 times
Reputation: 2576

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
I wonder if Republicans will ever stop trying to control a woman's uterus?
What, like the gendercide that's going on in other parts of our world and here too:

Cases Of Forced Abortions Surface In China : NPR

Imagine being woke up in the middle of the night, or just taken during the day, the hour doesn't matter...you are then drug off....and I will trail off the rest of the graphical...

Is today's social structure, less barbaric than in our history? If it is I don't see it.

But any way, that's a government controlling a woman's uterus.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:57 AM
 
Location: At the corner of happy and free
6,457 posts, read 6,640,714 times
Reputation: 16232
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Nope, don't care.
It wasn't middle ground and I simply don't believe your "credentials".
If I were not middle ground, I would have fully argued the pro-life side. I did not. I view abortion as unfortunate, but sometimes perhaps "the lesser of two evils." I definitely have no problem with birth control, and I don't see much difference between using a form of birth control versus, say, using a "morning after" pill (and just because I am using the vernacular, please don't use that as further evidence that I am not a Medical Laboratory Scientist).

Taking that a step further, since I personally have no problem with a "morning after" pill, I don't have a huge issue with an abortion in the earliest weeks of pregnancy.

FOR ME, it gets muddy as the pregnancy progresses. FOR ME, particularly after the "unborn baby/fetus/whatever you choose to call it" has reached viability, I am not comfortable with the idea of abortion.

Do you consider that to be an extremist position? I think many would agree that I am middle ground.

And all of the people I have worked with in various laboratories around the country definitely agree that I am a Medical Laboratory Scientist, Indiana University 1985, GPA 3.85, passed the board of registry August 16, 1985. Why in the hell would I make this up?
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:04 AM
 
1,692 posts, read 1,956,030 times
Reputation: 1190
Quote:
I certainly agree that to look at a zygote is very different than looking at a human (post-birth) infant. But somewhere during 9 months of pregnancy the difference diminishes.

I used to be very strongly pro-life. I've definitely softened, or actually just become more muddied on the issue. I don't call myself "pro-life" or "pro-choice" at this point (and in a way I feel guilty about that, because I do think it is an important issue, but frankly I've been focused on my own life and my own problems and haven't been bothered with involvement on either side for quite a while).

On the one hand, I have more compassion now for a woman in the position of dealing with an unwanted pregnancy. But as a medical scientist, I know that there is no difference, for example, between an 8-month fetus still inside the womb and a baby born prematurely at 8 months gestation.

I've never been a fan of the "my body my choice" argument. For staunch pro-lifers, who absolutely believe that an unborn baby (or fetus or whatever you choose to call it) is every bit as human as any other person, then "my body my choice" type of arguments are as twisted as saying a parent has the right to kill any of their children. They feel there can be no justification for the legal killing of a child. And really, can anyone give compelling reasons that a late term abortion is any different than the murder of a born preemie?

Here's another question to muddy the waters --- let's say an unborn baby is having surgery outside the womb (in other words, the surgeon removes the fetus via C-section for the surgery, then returns the fetus to the womb after the surgery). Was this tiny patient a "human" while outside the womb, but returned to "fetus" status after the surgery?

It's not cut and dried to me. At the very least, I am bothered to know that late term abortion is still legal in some states (actually most states, in various circumstances). In my opinion, somewhere between zygote and viability that "little blob of cells" becomes a human being worthy of protection. I personally don't believe a 6-inch journey down the birth canal is what imparts personhood.
I am pro-choice, and I agree with this stance.

Here is how I think that both sides shoot themselves in the foot-

1. Pro-choicers: By calling a fetus a "blob" of cells and essentially devaluing human life.

2. Pro-lifers: By using religious arguments and plastering pictures of dead babies on campuses.

I don't like the hardcore elements of either side - I find them both repulsive.

In the end, I am pro-choice because I believe it is up to a woman to choose. It is not an easy choice, and one filled with consequences that extend beyond the act of just getting an abortion, but not my decision to make.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:12 AM
 
7,541 posts, read 6,260,769 times
Reputation: 1837
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN View Post
Protecting the right of the child to have life liberty and the pursuit of happiness is a normal goal for all responsible adults.
what child? There is no child here. Its a bunch of cells that are being removed from someone who doesn't want it in their bodies.

You need to look up the definition of child (and also baby) because it seems that you are confused as to what a child (and baby) is.

Everyone can see through the women haters rhetoric.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:49 AM
 
Location: At the corner of happy and free
6,457 posts, read 6,640,714 times
Reputation: 16232
Quote:
Originally Posted by db108108 View Post
I am pro-choice, and I agree with this stance.

Here is how I think that both sides shoot themselves in the foot-

1. Pro-choicers: By calling a fetus a "blob" of cells and essentially devaluing human life.

2. Pro-lifers: By using religious arguments and plastering pictures of dead babies on campuses.

I don't like the hardcore elements of either side - I find them both repulsive.

In the end, I am pro-choice because I believe it is up to a woman to choose. It is not an easy choice, and one filled with consequences that extend beyond the act of just getting an abortion, but not my decision to make.
It is so refreshing when someone shares a rational, thought-provoking post. You make an excellent point about both sides going to an extreme, which does nothing but further polarize the issue.

It wish both sides would work harder to find the common ground, but I think everyone is afraid if they give an inch, they'll end up losing a mile.

I wish both sides would show more compassion, for the women facing unwanted pregnancies, for the born children whose parents are struggling to provide for their needs, and for those on the other side who just might be right on some of their points, if only each side would seek to understand the other.

We are all human beings here, who once were blobs/fetuses/unborn babies....who have varied opinions on this and many other topics. And we all have an obligation to respectfully share our opinions and to respectfully listen to others.

Peace.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:55 AM
 
Location: At the corner of happy and free
6,457 posts, read 6,640,714 times
Reputation: 16232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus View Post
what child? There is no child here. Its a bunch of cells that are being removed from someone who doesn't want it in their bodies.

You need to look up the definition of child (and also baby) because it seems that you are confused as to what a child (and baby) is.

Everyone can see through the women haters rhetoric.
I'm a woman, so believe me, I don't hate women.

I would like to sincerely ask you if you believe there is any point while in utero that what you call a "bunch of cells" becomes a baby. Not trying to set you up in any way, just curious if you would say that at 8 or 9 months (or even 9 1/2 if overdue) the term "baby" is acceptable to you.

Again, not trying to set you up, but since you asked someone to look up the definition of "baby," I did do that, and the 5th defintion at Baby | Define Baby at Dictionary.com is "a human fetus."
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth Texas
12,481 posts, read 10,206,647 times
Reputation: 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by itlltickleurinnerds View Post
It has to be human to be a holocaust. Since a zygote is not human but a bunch of cells its not a holocaust. Nope you lose.
I bunch of cells with growing and changing distint human DNA . As that is what we all are. I do not lose 55 million who were denied life lose. And only a pro abortionist thinks there is a winner in denying 55 million lives
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:38 PM
 
27,624 posts, read 21,083,971 times
Reputation: 11095
The reasons that Roe v. Wade will never be overturned and should never be overturned is apparent to me. As many pregnancies as there are, there are equal the number of reasons that women either choose to carry full term or to terminate. Each individual's choice depends upon their individual circumstances. What I find repugnant, are the crackpot fringe groups that have the audacity to think that regardless of medical reasons, life or death of the mother scenario or incestual pregnancies, a woman should be forced to be confronted with an unwanted or unsafe pregnancy. No one has the right to decide what is best for another...Period!

That being said, I also resent the "pro-life" term. Someone that is pro-choice is not translated to be someone that is anti-life. You are either pro-choice or anti-choice, plain and simple. Personally, I am not in favor of late term abortion unless it is crucial to the mother's health.

Another point that many who wish to dictate the undertakings of another's womb are overlooking is...are you going to follow the pregnant woman around for nine months or maybe fit her with a tracking device to make certain that she is not partaking in any activity that can harm the fetus? Who will determine the rules of that game?
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,095 posts, read 25,959,022 times
Reputation: 6128
Abortion is wrong.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,168,058 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Abortion is wrong.
Then don't have one.
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