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Old 01-25-2013, 12:58 PM
 
2,836 posts, read 3,496,025 times
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The Constitution did not adopt Thomas Jefferson’s ideas expressed in the Declaration of Independence; to the contrary, it was a rejection of Jeffersonian democracy in favor of a constitutional republic, which is a representative form of government providing for division of powers subject to checks and balances. Likewise, the Constitution represents the repudiation of natural rights. The framers of the Constitution created the United States as a nation of laws and not men. The overarching principle of the Constitution is the primacy of the rule of law. All rights exist only by law. Under the Constitution, the mechanism for effecting change is through our elected representatives by vote, not by violence - by lawful process, not lawlessness.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Currently I physically reside on the 3rd planet from the sun
2,220 posts, read 1,877,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell Phillips View Post
The Constitution did not adopt Thomas Jefferson’s ideas expressed in the Declaration of Independence; to the contrary, it was a rejection of Jeffersonian democracy in favor of a constitutional republic, which is a representative form of government providing for division of powers subject to checks and balances. Likewise, the Constitution represents the repudiation of natural rights. The framers of the Constitution created the United States as a nation of laws and not men. The overarching principle of the Constitution is the primacy of the rule of law. All rights exist only by law. Under the Constitution, the mechanism for effecting change is through our elected representatives by vote, not by violence - by lawful process, not lawlessness.
Although Jefferson was in France when the Constitution was drafted, you really want to assert he had no influence in its content? I think you assume too much. Typical obfuscation when people present perspectives you don't like.

And nobody I know of is proposing violence or lawlessness.
Quite the opposite, I believe many here would like to see our politicians act within the bounds of their constitutionally limited powers.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,818,277 times
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Originally Posted by Bulldawg82 View Post
If the government turns to tyranny, then they are the ones that are committing treason.
At ANY given point in time, one is bound to find a few insane ones who will claim tyranny. If they engage in insurrection, it is treason. The US Constitution prescribes this power to suppress such rebellion, to the Congress.
At ANY given point in time, one is bound to find a few insane ones who believe having government itself is tyrannny. If they engage in insurrection, it is treason. The US Constitution prescribes this power to suppress such rebellion, to the Congress.

The US Constitution does not empower people to violently overthrow the government. It prescribes a civilized way to achieving that goal.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:33 PM
 
4,911 posts, read 3,429,907 times
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Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
Removing abusive and tyrannical "leaders" from power isn't treason, it's our duty as Americans. It's the only way to protect the country and our Constitution.
That's why we have these things called elections
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,948,900 times
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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

(POKE)
That's from the Declaration of Independence, which has no force of law in this country.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:48 PM
 
1,596 posts, read 1,158,930 times
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Originally Posted by mmmjv View Post
Treason is still not legal. It doesn't matter your reason. And if it isn't legal than it certainly isn't a consitutional right
Is anti-treason legal when the government is the treasoner?
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:55 PM
 
1,596 posts, read 1,158,930 times
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Originally Posted by mmmjv View Post
Treason is still not legal. It doesn't matter your reason. And if it isn't legal than it certainly isn't a consitutional right
The government is not the constitution.

No treason is more odious than an attempt to subvert the constitution.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:55 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,358 posts, read 26,495,840 times
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Originally Posted by mmmjv View Post
One of the most popular claims for why we have the 2nd amendment is also probably the most insane. Governments do not put in their constitutions provisions allowing the people to commit treason. Overthrowing the government is not a constitutional right.
Legal and right are two different things. Everything Hitler did was legal, and it was all wrong. The people have every right to overthrow the government if it is usurped by a tyrant.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,818,277 times
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Originally Posted by Statutory Ape View Post
The government is not the constitution.

No treason is more odious than an attempt to subvert the constitution.
Treason is an attempt to "overcome" the constitution, when you hate what it brings to you.
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Old 01-25-2013, 02:08 PM
 
Location: In your head, rent free
14,888 posts, read 10,035,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmjv View Post
That's why we have these things called elections
And if a leader begins to defy his oath to the constitution and became tyrannical 1 year into a 4 year term?
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