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We spent money on the wrong things. Most of the bailouts were for banks, and infrastructure was left with scraps. We need a multitrillion dollar, 0% century bond credit on a capital budget to have a real stimulus in this country
There you might have an argument. We didn't spend money on infrastructure like we should have. But we still can.
We spent money on the wrong things. Most of the bailouts were for banks, and infrastructure was left with scraps. We need a multitrillion dollar, 0% century bond credit on a capital budget to have a real stimulus in this country. What the debt fanatics also don't understand is that paying down the debt is actually bad for business. The only time it's time to start paying the debt down is when you can't afford the interest payments on Treasury securities anymore. Right now, Treasury securities have among the lowest, if not the lowest, yield rates in the world right now because so many people have them. Treasuries are such a safe investment that the Treasury is basically selling them almost at cost.
Alright, thank jeebus somebody gets it. Debt does not equal bad.
No one is advocating running debt to unsustainable levels. I know what fiat currency means. If investors are so scared, why is the stock market at near record highs? Other countries are still investing in us and still look to usd as a safe bet.
When I say investors, I'm speaking of our creditors. China has slowed down the amount of bonds it's buying, our allies (which are in massive debt themselves) are keeping us up. If you want to create stimulus cut corporate and small business taxes drastically and I bet you'll see a business boom here in the states. Allow the individual tax-rates to go back to Clinton levels, while dropping spending on certain sectors. You can't spend yourself out of a recession if the world is still sluggish. We need more jobs, not more unnecessary spending.
Yes, who cares what an incredibly brilliant Nobel peace prize winner who has devoted their entire life to studying economics has to say about it? I just don't like it. Great logic there.
Krugman is an ass, and his Nobel Prize was in comparative trade advantage, not monetary policy.
If you're willing to allow a proctologist to perform brain surgery on you, then knock yourself out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafo1981
Because we didn't spend enough.
Uh-huh....
If Bush's tax cuts and spending on two wars --- real spending mind you -- didn't do anything and Obama's policies haven't done anything, why would spending more work?
Do you know the cause of the so-called "Great Recession?"
Because, if you do, know the cause, then you know no amount of spending will work.
The issue is surplus labor caused by the expansion of developing States. The US cannot compete globally, and there are no set of policies or actions the government can take to alter that fact....unless government would be stupid enough to make $15/hour the maximum wage in the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafo1981
And, "things" are improving.
Yes, I can definitely see where the net loss of 979,000 jobs since October is an improvement and I can see where the increase in weekly initial unemployment claims 2013 vs 2012 is an improvement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafo1981
Both china and Japan just bought a huge amount of US bonds at the end of last year, so apparently they didn't get your news about us not being able to pay them back.
Well, you certainly show no lack of short-sightedness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafo1981
So you believe that the American economy is incapable of bouncing back?
What I believe does not matter. It's what the data says, and the data says you're going nowhere very slowly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafo1981
That's not what he is saying. He is advocating one strong shot of stimulus then to immediately mitigate spending and deal with the debt after the economy is moving full steam ahead.
But the economy isn't going to move full steam ahead. The last time your economy was moving full steam was in the mid-1960s.
How many advanced 4th Level Economies have existed on Earth before now?
None.
We have plenty of data on 0 (Agrarian), 1st, 2nd and 3rd Level Economies, but nothing for 4th Level. It's uncharted territory.
Krugman is too stupid to see that, and thinks you can save a 4th Level Economy by taking the same actions that you would in 1st or 2nd Level Economy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafo1981
It did work, they just didn't spend enough. If they had not done any stimulus we would be standing in bread lines right now.
Uh-huh. Look at the chart above one more time, just in case you didn't get it the first time.
Economically....
Mircea
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn
You can't make a square roll no matter how much money you spend.
Then maybe they should start casting spells.
Amusingly....
When I say investors, I'm speaking of our creditors. China has slowed down the amount of bonds it's buying, our allies (which are in massive debt themselves) are keeping us up. If you want to create stimulus cut corporate and small business taxes drastically and I bet you'll see a business boom here in the states. Allow the individual tax-rates to go back to Clinton levels, while dropping spending on certain sectors. You can't spend yourself out of a recession if the world is still sluggish. We need more jobs, not more unnecessary spending.
You said you were a liberal? What gives. Yeah we tried the cut corporate taxes scheme. It never has or never will work. It was called trickle down. And your assertation about chinas slowing down on buying us debt doesn't hold water. They aren't going to constantly buy us tresurary notes at break-neck rates.
China has “a very large portfolio of Treasuries and they don’t need to constantly add to it,”
Yes, who cares what an incredibly brilliant Nobel peace prize winner who has devoted their entire life to studying economics has to say about it? I just don't like it. Great logic there.
Pretty much everything Krugman says is refuted by what Milton Friedman says. And guess what? Friedman was also a Nobel prize winner who devoted his life to studying economics. So I'll just throw that "Great logic there" comment right back at you.
Krugman is an ass, and his Nobel Prize was in comparative trade advantage, not monetary policy.
If you're willing to allow a proctologist to perform brain surgery on you, then knock yourself out.
Uh-huh....
If Bush's tax cuts and spending on two wars --- real spending mind you -- didn't do anything and Obama's policies haven't done anything, why would spending more work?
Do you know the cause of the so-called "Great Recession?"
Because, if you do, know the cause, then you know no amount of spending will work.
The issue is surplus labor caused by the expansion of developing States. The US cannot compete globally, and there are no set of policies or actions the government can take to alter that fact....unless government would be stupid enough to make $15/hour the maximum wage in the US.
Yes, I can definitely see where the net loss of 979,000 jobs since October is an improvement and I can see where the increase in weekly initial unemployment claims 2013 vs 2012 is an improvement.
Well, you certainly show no lack of short-sightedness.
What I believe does not matter. It's what the data says, and the data says you're going nowhere very slowly.
But the economy isn't going to move full steam ahead. The last time your economy was moving full steam was in the mid-1960s.
How many advanced 4th Level Economies have existed on Earth before now?
None.
We have plenty of data on 0 (Agrarian), 1st, 2nd and 3rd Level Economies, but nothing for 4th Level. It's uncharted territory.
Krugman is too stupid to see that, and thinks you can save a 4th Level Economy by taking the same actions that you would in 1st or 2nd Level Economy.
Uh-huh. Look at the chart above one more time, just in case you didn't get it the first time.
Economically....
Mircea
Then maybe they should start casting spells.
Amusingly....
Mircea
4th level economy? Where are you getting this stuff? Why don't you enlighten us as to what the definition of 4th level economy is and what it is exactly that the data in your chart demonstrates. This should be funny.
this is very popular thought but utterly false. u cant debt your way out of debt.
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