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Do you know who the most powerful and important nations were that talked the UN into establishing that place we call Israel? Yes, there were two of them called the US and the USSR. One of them doesn't exist any longer but one is still around. I think that that action by the US makes them necessarily responsible for support of the single democratic government in the Middle East.
There is always a trumped up reason for Israel.
* protect the flank of the British empire and guard the Suez
* anti-soviet satellite against Arab allies
* the ally in the war against Al qaeda
* the only democracy ( a members only democracy that is)
The entire context is nothing but lies based on religious lunacy, mythology and politics. That state will never do anyone any more good than it does harm in any rational analysis, only pointless tit for tat killing. If I were a Jew, I'd be in Australia. Lots of desert without the BS. And what I mean by that is bomb shelters.
I have never been to one of those memorials but I very clearly remember the pictures we saw at the end of WW II of the troops liberating those concentration camps. Anyone who has seen anything like those people inside those places would have to believe it happened. I talked to German citizens in 1955 who had been near those camps and they believed it all.
I would have to question Gwynedd about the use of starving and disease to kill all those people. It was done in experimental manner more than once on them but it became easier to gas them and then burn them than to keep looking for new ground for mass burials. It bothers me that so many people have never heard about stripping men and boys and shooting them so they fell into their mass graves. They thought that would do the trick but it was too time consuming and too costly
Austerity measures using Big Pharma to quell the surplus labor problem?
Maybe you can give me some indication of what gwynedd is reading to get all these things on mind. Please do if you can.
Jewish Encyclopedia
Encyclopedia Britannica
The Bible.
The Talmud
Josephus
Secular works on the Franco Prussian war, WWI and WWII
The Balfour declaration( aka the offer of the diaspora to move against Germany. )
Just off the top of my head....
In other words its a heavily politicized and propagandized subject on almost all sides.
How many people even know religious Jews were mostly opposed to Zionism(before they were killed). Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook founded it and was an exception. It was nonexistent in the 19th century. What helped to found it? A wave of antisemitism.
Why were religious Jews against it? ? Cite Deuteronomy 30. The book, which is also called second law for the non Levite lay Israelite, states that return to Israel must occur with religious revival. Zionism was apolitical movement and atheists are many. That is why they hated, and in many cases still hate Israel, as a secular state.
So any link to the postion on Israel is just more :
propagandized BS
Just leave me and my country out if it please. Should we pick sides in Haitian Voodoo too?
* protect the flank of the British empire and guard the Suez
* anti-soviet satellite against Arab allies
* the ally in the war against Al qaeda
* the only democracy ( a members only democracy that is)
The entire context is nothing but lies based on religious lunacy, mythology and politics. That state will never do anyone any more good than it does harm in any rational analysis. Only pointless tit for tat killing. If I were a Jew, I'd be in Australia. Lots of desert without the BS. And what I mean by that is bomb shelters.
I guess you are saying that the USSR wasn't involved in the creation of Israel. Also, you are pointing out that the British left in a hurry because they wanted the Jews to do what they had been doing for so long. I have to agree with you that they wanted out and gladly accepted the creation of the Jewish state, but your part about an anti-Soviet satellite against Arab allies makes me wonder. I was around in 1948 and keeping track of what went on then. Were you?
I guess you are saying that the USSR wasn't involved in the creation of Israel.
I guess you are saying the USSR was not a Johny come lately.
BUONAPARTE, COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF OF THE ARMIES OF THE FRENCH REPUBLIC
IN AFRICA AND ASIA, TO THE RIGHTFUL HEIRS OF PALESTINE.
Israelites, unique nation, whom, in thousands of years, lust of conquest and tyranny have been able to be deprived of their ancestral lands, but not of name and national existence !
Attentive and impartial observers of the destinies of nations, even though not endowed with the gifts of seers like Isaiah and Joel, have long since also felt what these, with beautiful and uplifting faith, have foretold when they saw the approaching destruction of their kingdom and fatherland: And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads; they shall obtain joy and gladness and sorrow and sighing shall flee away. (Isaiah 35,10)
Arise then, with gladness, ye exiled ! A war unexampled In the annals of history, waged in self-defense by a nation whose hereditary lands were regarded by its enemies as plunder to be divided, arbitrarily and at their convenience, by a stroke of the pen of Cabinets, avenges its own shame and the shame of the remotest nations, long forgotten under the yoke of slavery, and also, the almost two-thousand-year-old ignominy put upon you; and, while time and circumstances would seem to be least favourable to a restatement of your claims or even to their expression ,and indeed to be compelling their complet abandonment, it offers to you at this very time, and contrary to all expectations, Israel's patrimony !
The young army with which Providence has sent me hither, let by justice and accompanied by victory, has made Jerusalem my head-quarters and will, within a few days, transfer them to Damascus, a proximity which is no longer terrifying to David's city.
Rightful heirs of Palestine !
The great nation which does not trade in men and countries as did those which sold your ancestors unto all people (Joel,4,6) herewith calls on you not indeed to conquer your patrimony ;nay, only to take over that which has been conquered and, with that nation's warranty and support, to remain master of it to maintain it against all comers.
Arise ! Show that the former overwhelming might of your oppressors has but repressed the courage of the descendants of those heroes who alliance of brothers would have done honour even to Sparta and Rome (Maccabees 12, 15) but that the two thousand years of treatment as slaves have not succeeded in stifling it.
Hasten !, Now is the moment, which may not return for thousands of years, to claim the restoration of civic rights among the population of the universe which had been shamefully withheld from you for thousands of years, your political existence as a nation among the nations, and the unlimited natural right to worship Jehovah in accordance with your faith, publicly and most probably forever (JoeI 4,20).
As is usual at CD we have a lack ofscholarship and lack of historical perspective. Its been a geopolitical chess piece for centuries. The cold war worked perfectly for those interests. The USSR was for it because it thought she would control it. How does that give it legitimacy?
Napoleon was looking for cash . Its the Napoleonic French version of the Balfour Declaration.
Quote:
Also, you are pointing out that the British left in a hurry because they wanted the Jews to do what they had been doing for so long. I have to agree with you that they wanted out and gladly accepted the creation of the Jewish state, but your part about an anti-Soviet satellite against Arab allies makes me wonder. I was around in 1948 and keeping track of what went on then. Were you?
I was speaking of the 60s and 70s when that was why we supported Israel. Like I said, they always find a reason. However no, I was not paying attention in 1948. I was not even in my daddy's turkey sandwich.
I have never been to one of those memorials but I very clearly remember the pictures we saw at the end of WW II of the troops liberating those concentration camps. Anyone who has seen anything like those people inside those places would have to believe it happened. I talked to German citizens in 1955 who had been near those camps and they believed it all.
I would have to question Gwynedd about the use of starving and disease to kill all those people. It was done in experimental manner more than once on them but it became easier to gas them and then burn them than to keep looking for new ground for mass burials. It bothers me that so many people have never heard about stripping men and boys and shooting them so they fell into their mass graves. They thought that would do the trick but it was too time consuming and too costly
Plus they didnt want to waste the bullets. They decided to gas instead of starvation because they wanted to speed up the process of elimination and also world domination. The jewish solution was taking too much men and resources.
Yes i am jewish and luckly my family was already canadian back then.
In all fairness, after witnessing so much rogue and babric behavior of Israel, I start to consider that to investigate the full truth of so called Hollocous event has merit. If that is outrageous, then this outrageous was brought by none but by Israel Zionism regime. They shattered my final sympathy really.
Last edited by seagull84; 01-30-2013 at 02:39 PM..
I don't know what you are smoking, drinking or reading but would sure like to read some of the things that have you so well taken in about this one. I don't drink or use any drugs other than prescriptions so maybe you could share where you are reading all this stuff. Please?
Sure
Quote:
* Edmond Rothschild purchased land in now Israel in the late 19th century to start a colony .
* Jews in Europe didn't want to go to a barren desert.
Britannica.
Quote:
* During WWI the Balfour declaration promised a Jewish state if international Jewry would aid Britain in the war. ( It is this that put German Jews in jeopardy not unlike the Japanese in the US because international Jewry was a foreign enemy on the side of Britain(whom the British betrayed along with the Arabs. ) . Thus while not justification, there was motive for Jewish hatred in Germany.
* Many Jews were happy with the German antisemitism because that makes Israel look more welcoming via the stick, hence a sick common interest that increased the danger to European Jews.
This is in so many places but "Torah Jews" have many of the references.
[SIZE=2]Mr Zhirinovsky's election success in 1993 boosted Jewish emigration
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Mr Zhirinovsky always denied, or glossed over, his father's Jewishness - even after a reporter found dug up documents in 1994 that showed his family name was Eidelshtein until he changed it at the age of 18. [/SIZE]
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* During the end of the war Germany had little food. That last people fed are those who are considered an enemy. That is why American POWs in Japan looked a lot like starving Jews.
[SIZE=2]One of the myths of the Germans during the Battle of the Bulge was that they were a well-equipped war machine with multitudes of King Tiger tanks, ME-262 Jet Fighters, and legions of well equipped Waffen-SS and Panzergrenadiers out for blood. As this short article has proven, the real story is that the German Army could not even keep its own front line combat troops adequately fed during the campaign. [/SIZE]
You were expecting fatties in the concentration camps?
Quote:
* Ann Frank died because she had no food, her immune system was in shambles and she died from typhus. there is no need to gas people. All you have to do is give them no water and they will die in days. Why use gas? it makes no sense to me.
but I have a memory of her writing a bit. Typhus was a terrible problem, especially for the children. Of 500 in my barracks, maybe 100 got it, and most of them died. Many others starved to death. When Anne Frank got sick with typhus, I remember telling her she could stay in the barracks - she didn't have to go to roll call.
So which part of what I said is unsupported an ill thought out? Don't worry, I never expect very much here.
I have never been to one of those memorials but I very clearly remember the pictures we saw at the end of WW II of the troops liberating those concentration camps. Anyone who has seen anything like those people inside those places would have to believe it happened. I talked to German citizens in 1955 who had been near those camps and they believed it all.
I would have to question Gwynedd about the use of starving and disease to kill all those people. It was done in experimental manner more than once on them but it became easier to gas them and then burn them than to keep looking for new ground for mass burials. It bothers me that so many people have never heard about stripping men and boys and shooting them so they fell into their mass graves. They thought that would do the trick but it was too time consuming and too costly
I rarely agree with you, Roy, but on this, we agree. Though I was not around until 1963, I knew some people who were; one of them was a good friend who showed me his "war yearbook", including the pictures they took at the camp of the inmates, both alive and dead. It was absolutely horrifying. He wouldn't say much about it, but did tell me a little after I cried over his book. The other person is my father in law, who was shot down over Germany, survived parachuting in, only to be accosted by angry villagers, who wanted to tear him to shreds. He was "saved" by German soldiers, who took him to a POW camp. When the Russians liberated the POW camp and the nearby concentration camp, the POW's saw the trench that was to be their mass grave, as the Germans knew they were about to be overrun by the Russians.
So I have a very negative visceral reaction to the liars who want to deny that the Holocaust happened, or want to sanitize the reasons it happened to make it seem somehow reasonable. IT WAS NOT REASONABLE. It will never be.
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