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They've probably worked out something to get the surgery itself but that doesn't mean that they didn't incur a sizeable amount of debt in the process...same with chemo...and dialysis...and radiation...and the removal of melanoma or precancerous moles...and so on and so on.
Further...a lot of people have no idea about a heart condition until it slaps them in the mouth. I had a friend about three years ago that started having heavy chest pains at the gym...never had a warning or even high blood pressure. He was in surgery the next day for a blocked artery....he was only 26 at the time. He lived but he still has sizeable debt from the procedure that he is struggling to pay....had he been uninsured and unable to pay its likely that you and I would be footing the bill through absorbed and written off services which augment the cost of care.
As soon as I came back to show you that you were incorrect in your strawman argument you come back with more strawman arguments.
Are you assuming here about what is covered and not ?
I'm not going to go debunking each of your assumptions of exhorbitant out of pocket costs; I just did that with heart transplant.
Honestly..don't go making stuff up to justify your cause thinking people will accept your assumptions as "facts" when indeed they are not.
Just come out and say you want to see 100% medical coverage for everyone because that is what you seem to be implying.
But then also explain who is going to pay for all that because hospitals, doctors and drug companies don't give away their services for free.
So let me ask you..how much does your physical cost ? Not your copay, but your physical.
It's not so black and white as you think.
Each person needs to check with their own insurance company to see what is covered and for how much.
There are plenty of people walking around to day that have had heart transplants so they've worked out something in order to be able to get that operation and follow up service.
If you have a bad heart then I would assume you would shop for an insurance that has good coverage for that since you already know you have heart problems.
You're looking for 100% healthcare coverage for all your health needs.
But someone has to pay for it because it's not really FREE, it is ?
As people keep demanding more "100% covered" medical care the higher your premiums will go until the premiums become unaffordable (which we have reached now as people go uninsured).
https://www.insuranceproviders.com/i...lth-insurance/
For the most part, all costs that are related to your or your loved one’s heart transplant will be covered by health insurance. For example, 97% of all of the plans offered by Blue Cross/Blue Shield cover the costs of heart transplants.
First of all, in the example wnewberry22 gave, the 26 year old had NO HISTORY of heart problems. 26 year olds tend to think they're invincible, and often have no coverage (they are a large portion of the voluntarily uninsured) or minimal coverage. Secondly, under the old system, which we are transitioning out of, "preexisting conditions" clauses can keep one from having coverage. Lastly, even if 97% of BC/BS plans cover a heart transplant, to what extent do they cover it? No copays/deductible?
First of all, in the example wnewberry22 gave, the 26 year old had NO HISTORY of heart problems. 26 year olds tend to think they're invincible, and often have no coverage (they are a large portion of the voluntarily uninsured) or minimal coverage. Secondly, under the old system, which we are transitioning out of, "preexisting conditions" clauses can keep one from having coverage. Lastly, even if 97% of BC/BS plans cover a heart transplant, to what extent do they cover it? No copays/deductible?
But that is not true of everyone in the US, is it ? Personal stories are just that.
I know one person who..therefore all are ? No, not a valid argument.
If you have heart trouble then you investigate. I don't and there's no history of it in my family so I have NOT investigated the extent of coverage. Now I did know a woman at work that got supplemental insurance over and above what work provided because her husband had some type of chronic illness that wasn't completely covered by the company insurance. People do what they need to do.
Life happens Kat and no one can be 100% covered or prepared for every facet of you life.
That pertains to life outside of your health. Utopia does not exist although I think we're going to go broke trying to make it so.
As soon as I came back to show you that you were incorrect in your strawman argument you come back with more strawman arguments.
Are you assuming here about what is covered and not ?
I'm not going to go debunking each of your assumptions of exhorbitant out of pocket costs; I just did that with heart transplant.
Honestly..don't go making stuff up to justify your cause thinking people will accept your assumptions as "facts" when indeed they are not.
Just come out and say you want to see 100% medical coverage for everyone because that is what you seem to be implying.
But then also explain who is going to pay for all that because hospitals, doctors and drug companies don't give away their services for free.
So let me ask you..how much does your physical cost ? Not your copay, but your physical.
Declaring that I'm incorrect doesn't make it so.
No....I'm not assuming what is and isn't covered, and you and I must have a different definition of the word "debunk." I have worked as an actuary for both auto and health insurance for a long time. I'm very aware of the in's and out's of policy language, exclusions, coverages, premiums, and what is and isn't covered...don't presume to lecture me on what I know about healthcare. I do this nine hours a day, five days a week, and have done so for the last six years.
Most healthcare plans have a flat outlay amount of 80% with a lifetime cap minus your deductible. Most don't just "cover" something entirely because it's expensive and YES people often get saddled with exorbitant out of pocket costs. Why do you think that almost half of the bankruptcy in this country is a direct result of healthcare costs.....is it because it's all paid for? No...it's not.
A system that pays 100% of our healthcare would be great, imo. It would be a great stride towards theoretical "positive liberty" for the US and great for healthcare equality.
How I would pay for this...through tax dollars...the same way we pay for the roads that you drive on, the government mortgage backing that allows you to have a 30 year fixed mortgage, the schools your kids go to, the plows that remove the snow from your road, the disaster relief that comes when tornadoes sweep through the Lone Star State, and the couriers that deliver your envelopes from one end of this country to the other in 4 days.
Here's how I would love to see it completed....
-The Fairtax instituted...23% sales tax and no income tax...it attracts businesses, creates more jobs, and allows you to keep all your money in your paycheck
-Military budgets to be cut down to about 2.5-3% of GDP
-Illicit drug use to be legalized and taxed at the point of sale
-Ditto with prostitution...legalized, regulated, taxed at the point of "sale."
-Wind/Solar energy tax credits to be stopped...the government shouldn't dictate the energy of the future.
-Welfare roles to be limited substantially
-Social Security needs to start being moved towards partial privatization
That may not pay for it all but I would say that it would come awfully damn close.
Do you have any idea how FEW doctors we have compared to our population...especially in rural areas? Following that logic would the demand would WAAAYYYYY outweigh the supply which would cause prices to increase. Services (again, especially in rural areas) would be farmed out to the highest bidder.
Yes, I am aware of our doctor count. We rank #52 and have half as many per capita as Cuba. Which begs the question, "why do we have so few doctors?"
I seriously doubt we would get into a bidding war for doctor services. A free market would reduce the demand for wasted services. We would no longer spend a million dollars keeping grandma alive for 3 more months. People would make far better decisions if they are spending their own money.
But that is not true of everyone in the US, is it ? Personal stories are just that.
I know one person who..therefore all are ? No, not a valid argument.
If you have heart trouble then you investigate. I don't and there's no history of it in my family so I have NOT investigated the extent of coverage. Now I did know a woman at work that got supplemental insurance over and above what work provided because her husband had some type of chronic illness that wasn't completely covered by the company insurance. People do what they need to do.
Life happens Kat and no one can be 100% covered or prepared for every facet of you life.
That pertains to life outside of your health. Utopia does not exist although I think we're going to go broke trying to make it so.
THE PERSON DID NOT HAVE ANY KNOWN HEART DISEASE! Personal story or not, things like that happen to people. Do may 14 year olds get melanoma! NO! A dermatologist at Colorado Children's Hospital once said there had only been a handful of cases of kids with melanoma in his entire career. Guess what? MY DAUGHTER go melanoma at 14. That's why you have insurance, to cover the unexpected. Statistics CANNOT predict what will happen to you personally.
Life happens Kat and no one can be 100% covered or prepared for every facet of you life.
That pertains to life outside of your health. Utopia does not exist although I think we're going to go broke trying to make it so.
Correct. If we quit trying, people would have a lot more money to spend on things they need or enjoy.
THE PERSON DID NOT HAVE ANY KNOWN HEART DISEASE! Personal story or not, things like that happen to people. Do may 14 year olds get melanoma! NO! A dermatologist at Colorado Children's Hospital once said there had only been a handful of cases of kids with melanoma in his entire career. Guess what? MY DAUGHTER go melanoma at 14. That's why you have insurance, to cover the unexpected. Statistics CANNOT predict what will happen to you personally.
So what are you advocating here..100% coverage for everything and anything and nothing out of pocket ?
That 26 year old had insurance but wasn't covered 100% for all costs.
Obamacare got rid of pre-existing and put a cap of $6K on out of pocket costs so your 80/20 is gone now.
What more do you want ?
Yes, I am aware of our doctor count. We rank #52 and have half as many per capita as Cuba. Which begs the question, "why do we have so few doctors?"
I seriously doubt we would get into a bidding war for doctor services. A free market would reduce the demand for wasted services. We would no longer spend a million dollars keeping grandma alive for 3 more months. People would make far better decisions if they are spending their own money.
It would work like any other market. When you have a very limited number of providers, the doctors (and rightly so) will end up having their services purchased by the highest bidder. Hell, If I had a service that only a few people could provide but TONS of people needed...I'd charge a sh*t load for it.
It's just business as usual...it makes good business sense for doctors to charge the highest amount if they essentially have a monopoly in their area. I grew up in a town of 1200 people and we had one family doctor.....he had the market cornered and he was a VERY WEALTHY MAN...it was pretty hard to get an appointment to see him too.
So what are you advocating here..100% coverage for everything and anything and nothing out of pocket ?
That 26 year old had insurance but wasn't covered 100% for all costs.
First of all, I'm advocating for a little transparency here. If you don't know you have any known heart disease, you don't go out shopping for insurance that covers same. You said "If you know you have heart disease yada yada"; the person in that example didn't know, and at his age, the statistics say he shouldn't have such severe heart disease. That's why population statistics don't work for individuals, as an aside.
Unexpected health expenses shouldn't bankrupt people. A more likely problem for a 26 year old would be an auto accident, or a sports accident. That's how old my daughter was when she got a concussion skiing into a tree. The MRI alone cost $1500 for which, thankfully, she was insured, b/c at 26 and only one year out of grad school, she would have had a hard time coughing that up.
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