Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Still waiting for some liberal to explain where families paying the average cost are supposed to get the $20,000 to pay the costs the liberals have imposed on them.
And since dodgers and con artists such as HisterianDude keep pointing out that some are EXEMPT and trying to pretend that's a GOOD thing, I suppose I should also ask where other families are going to get the **MORE THAN $20,000** they are being forced to pay (for their own coverage plus the EXEMPT families' coverage).
Still no one dares to explain that.
Still waiting....
If they are not exempt then they would get they the money from wherever they are getting it now. Most companies subsidize health insurance and if they don't then you have to buy insurance from the private market. I'm not sure if the IRS is going to be using gross income or AGI, but let's assume that the applicable number is $140,000 AND your family plan does in fact cost $20K. In this scenario you would be exempt from paying the tax and exempt from buying the insurance because the cost exceeds 8% of your applicable income.
The only exemptions I found were $9.5K for singles and $19.5K for married filing jointly, so let's use those numbers.
If you make $230K and are married filing jointly and your insurance costs you $20K then you would be exempt from insurance and the tax, unless some high income provision exists.
Income $230K
Exemption $19K
Working Inc. $211K * .08 = $16.,880 is the most you can pay before you are exempt.
Now, if you find insurance for $15K and do not want to purchase it you will have you pay an additional 2.5% tax which comes to an additional $5,275, but as I understand it the family tax is capped at $2,085, so that would be your additional tax that you are owed.
If we change your applicable income to $271K and assume that your insurance premiums cost $20K then you would you have pay the full premium or pay the tax of $2,085.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog
While it's nice that you can't be denied for a pre-existing condition, what happens when/if the insurance company decides that coverage for your family of 4 now costs $40,000 a year? How about $60,000 or $80,000 a year?
Nothing in Obamacare restricts what these insurance companies can CHARGE us, it just mandates that we have to BUY this product of a for-profit company.
I shudder to think what federal legislation will be forthcoming when the other Big Businesses realize that Government can now MANDATE that we buy their products...
If the cost of insurance rises then you will either pay or not, the same thing the happens now. Obamacare is a POS legislation that congress was able to pass because people wanted them to do something about the cost of healthcare. Congress tried to address insurance instead. We still have a monopolistic healthcare system, which is the driver of insurance premiums. Nothing in obamacare is going to lower the cost, it remains to be seen it premiums will go down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog
With a government addicted to massive overspending and debt approaching $20 trillion, no doubt they'll be more and more heavy handed in collecting every possible tax already on the books.
And how about everyone proving they have insurance already? How many new IRS employees will be needed to research and verify that? It doesn't sound very straightforward, as we might expect from Big Government bureaucrats: "The IRS has not yet issued procedures for taxpayers to prove they have insurance. But IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman, in a 2010 speech, said he envisioned a process similar to the one used by taxpayers to report interest or investment income. Under this scenario, an insurance company would send the taxpayer and the IRS forms each year verifying that the taxpayer has qualified insurance. Taxpayers would file the forms with the IRS along with their returns, and the IRS would check them to make sure they match the information supplied by the insurance companies."
The IRS is in charge of collecting taxes, not granting exemptions or making law. The exemptions and exclusions are already written into law. As far as how will they determine you have insurance, it's my understanding that you send them a w-2 like form, staple a form to your tax return and you are done. There will likely be an electronic version available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey
Tell the IRS you won't be paying that $2,300 and you'll be Westley Snipes new prison b*tch.
The IRS is explicitly prohibited from incarcerating you or assessing a levy against your property for failure to pay the tax. They might be able to sue and garnish wages, but they cannot jail you or take your house.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25
Yes you can pay the fine and not the 20K for health insurance but you end up with a fine and no insurance. This is going after the middle class big time something that obama and the left leaners are always screaming they are trying to help. Pure BS like the rest of their rantings.
True, but you also cannot be denied for a pre-existing condition, so the tax is basically an option silimar to a stock option.
Demand that the insurance companies cover more and more..........even on a "basic" policy......UM, what do you think will happen to premiums.
Real reform, as in bringing down costs, would involve a LOT of changes. But this will never happen.....step on too many toes.
ITA. Back when I was a kid, my parents had major medical. We were covered if we went to the hospital. Day to day care was paid for out of pocket. Insurance was much cheaper too.
I pay $3500 out of pocket for my insurance (through my employer) plus co pays (about $1200/year for us with prescriptions and office visits) for myself and my daughters. My employer pays the other 80% for my policy. How much cheaper would this be if instead they bought me a major medical policy and I handled the day to day stuff with that $4700? My co pays cover the cost of 2 out of three of my prescriptions and half the cost of an office visit.
If I were a doctor, I'd look into creating/joining a one stop shopping clinic. Offer routine care, testing and prescriptions for a set fee per year. Say that $4700. Seriously, I see my doctor an average of 6 times a year. My kids see theirs 2-3 times a year. I get blood work done 1-2 times a year. I get an eye exam every other year and a hearing test every 3 years. I take three scripts and my dd has one. Seriously, the $4700 I'm paying is a lot for what we use. I'm sure the $14000 my employer pays would more than cover a nice major medical policy that would cover everything if we landed in the hospital.
The problem is we expect insurance to cover everything now so premiums are through the roof. We should be covering the day to day stuff ourselves. Insurance should be for the unforseen. The big stuff. Think about it. We don't file an insurance claim if we burn up a toaster. Just if we burn up a kitchen. What would house insurance cost if we insisted it cover the burned up toaster? The broken dish? The dishwasher breaking down....That's what we've done to medical insurance.
[quote=lycos679;28046032]Imprisonment and levies are not recourse options available to the IRS under obamacare. If you have a family of 5 and the health insurance costs $20K and you choose not to pay and you make $100K I believe your additional tax would be $2,300.[/quote]
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,389,283 times
Reputation: 40736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.XXX
You asked for it, and you got it. The only problem is that those of us who didn't ask for it are going to get it too...Unbelievable what this Marxist low life is doing to this nation...
To put it another way: Health plans under Obamacare cost more because they’re delivering more benefits. Customers are paying more – and getting something back in return.
The problem with that is most folks with any type of insurance don't use it for the minor stuff.
It's the folks that don't have any and are subsidized that do.
So my premium is going to pay for a medical nightmare. Not a healthy productive tax paying person.
That's why either have Medicare for all-single payer, or get the government out of health care payment
delivery, all together...
No, normally when you don't pay your taxes you face imprisonment, a tax lien against your property, garnishment of wages, etc. The SCOTUS said that the IRS cannot imprison you or seize your property, they still might be able to sue, but it is unclear what collection efforts are available as it pertains to this particular law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin
Really You mean, it's being subsidized by the federal government or an employer.
Family of Five Smaller footprint - guess not.
And what logic should one pay for something they don't use???
Usually insurance is subsidized by the employer, even if that employer is the federal government. I don't know how reasonable it is to assume a family would not be using healthcare. Kids get sick and women become pregnant, you need healthcare, ergo insurance, in those situations.
The people that are actually "punished" under this law are people like me. I'm not married and have never had insurance, but I'm young and have great genes so I have no need or desire to purchase insurance.
If I were a doctor, I'd look into creating/joining a one stop shopping clinic. Offer routine care, testing and prescriptions for a set fee per year. Say that $4700. Seriously, I see my doctor an average of 6 times a year. My kids see theirs 2-3 times a year. I get blood work done 1-2 times a year. I get an eye exam every other year and a hearing test every 3 years. I take three scripts and my dd has one. Seriously, the $4700 I'm paying is a lot for what we use. I'm sure the $14000 my employer pays would more than cover a nice major medical policy that would cover everything if we landed in the hospital.
That type of medical practice will get you jailed under o care.
Quote:
The problem is we expect insurance to cover everything now so premiums are through the roof. We should be covering the day to day stuff ourselves. Insurance should be for the unforseen. The big stuff. Think about it. We don't file an insurance claim if we burn up a toaster. Just if we burn up a kitchen. What would house insurance cost if we insisted it cover the burned up toaster? The broken dish? The dishwasher breaking down....That's what we've done to medical insurance.
I was offered a home policy when I bought my home in 2011. It has been great. Garbage disposal, dishwasher, HVAC repairs. I pay $384 a year for the policy + a small deductible. Best policy I ever bought (it's not the same as homeowners policies, they cover the kitchens).
As for the toaster.......it was covered under warranty by the manufacturer through my retailer. Instead of me tossing it and eating the cost of another, the mfgr gets feedback on the lack of quality of their products. These mfgr's hate people like me. Small stuff adds up.
And the dish? I just give the kid that dropped it a whipping he'll never forget. Probably damage the brain and turn him/her into some neurotic government slave in adulthood.
Bottom line - if WE as individuals don't take care of our own interest's, WHY WOULD WE THINK THE GOVERNMENT WILL?
The people that are actually "punished" under this law are people like me. I'm not married and have never had insurance, but I'm young and have great genes so I have no need or desire to purchase insurance.
I thought I had great genes too. No major health issues aside from diabetes in my family. Didn't stop me from being diagnosed with Stage IV lymphoma at 23 - something I had been suffering from (and misdiagnosed, partially due to lack of insurance) since I was 18.
One great aunt died of colon cancer in her mid-80s, another great half-aunt (grandmother's half sister) had ovarian cancer in her late 50s. I think it's safe to say that cancer does not run in my family. One grandmother recently passed away at 85 because she stopped taking her meds for diabetes, but my other grandparents are in their late 80s and still very healthy. Genes don't determine anything.
We need some kind of mandate BECAUSE of people like you who think they don't need health insurance and then something happens and the taxpayers are stuck with hundreds of thousands of unpaid medical bills.
I thought I had great genes too. No major health issues aside from diabetes in my family. Didn't stop me from being diagnosed with Stage IV lymphoma at 23 - something I had been suffering from (and misdiagnosed, partially due to lack of insurance) since I was 18.
One great aunt died of colon cancer in her mid-80s, another great half-aunt (grandmother's half sister) had ovarian cancer in her late 50s. I think it's safe to say that cancer does not run in my family. One grandmother recently passed away at 85 because she stopped taking her meds for diabetes, but my other grandparents are in their late 80s and still very healthy. Genes don't determine anything.
We need some kind of mandate BECAUSE of people like you who think they don't need health insurance and then something happens and the taxpayers are stuck with hundreds of thousands of unpaid medical bills.
No, you don't have great genes. You have a family history of cancer, which sucks. However, I don't have a family history of anything and haven't ever been sick - Nobody gets sick in my family. The only person that is sick in my family is my uncle and that is due to "agent orange" from Vietnam.
EDIT to add. I am the exact person insurance companies want paying into the system because I am the least likely to need services. I even have the Delta32 Genes. I should be out there impregnating women, but until there is incentive to do so that isn't going to happen.
Last edited by lycos679; 02-02-2013 at 06:07 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
ITA. Back when I was a kid, my parents had major medical. We were covered if we went to the hospital. Day to day care was paid for out of pocket. Insurance was much cheaper too. 
You mean, it's being subsidized by the federal government or an employer.
I should be out there impregnating women, but until there is incentive to do so that isn't going to happen.
