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Old 02-03-2013, 11:40 PM
 
47,531 posts, read 63,254,738 times
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Kids actually learned more before they were all given free computers and iPods to play on all day. Kids can learn from old fashioned books and pencils and papers.

The more money we're throwing at education, the faster our students fall in international rankings.
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:44 PM
 
1,066 posts, read 1,177,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulani View Post
I could justify it only if these students attended their own school.

I feel sorry for teachers today, having to teach to the lowest and (as mentioned above) take 20 minutes out of one class to teach one student. That is just wrong in a public school.

I went to college to become a pre-school teacher. I was working towards a degree in Early Childhood Education. I was NOT going to college to learn how to teach the mentally handicapped, this just was not a field I wanted to get into.
I was working in a pre-school when mainstreaming was started. I had a happy, healthy little 4 year old who had Down Syndrome in my class. No matter what activity I had planned for the class, it always took most of my time just to help her - the rest of the class was left to do it on their own.
This wasn't what I signed on for, and not something I was happy with. I did quit that job and moved on to another that had no disabled students.

I have a relative who went to school to get her degree in Special Education (whatever it is called). She wanted that kind of job and we often discussed our differences. I'm thankful there are people out there just like her - those that want to work with the disabled. However, I don't think the majority of teachers went into the profession wanting to work with these students. So, why must they now, when there ARE teachers who specialize in this very field? Never made sense to me.


The thing that needs to happen, and is so obvious that I can't understand why it doesn't happen is that students need to be grouped by ability and not age.


Not all 8 year olds do math at the same level, not all 8 year olds read at the same level. But they're all in the same class.

Totally ridiculous.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:18 AM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,877 posts, read 2,232,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DivineComedy View Post
The thing that needs to happen, and is so obvious that I can't understand why it doesn't happen is that students need to be grouped by ability and not age.


Not all 8 year olds do math at the same level, not all 8 year olds read at the same level. But they're all in the same class.

Totally ridiculous.
Exactly! My family has this conversation a lot.
This is one of the main reasons I pulled my son out of school before he finished the 6th grade; he took a sample GED test right after I started homeschooling him and passed it the first time.

Mateo, if someone is a doctor and chooses to only work with children or the elderly, are they being "particular"?

I'm no expert, but I always assumed that a degree in Education and one in Special Education were not the same thing. Different fields equals different strokes for different folks!
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:00 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
16,716 posts, read 12,088,137 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
We also don't warehouse our students, we have them in our general ed classrooms - sometimes to the slight detriment of the general ed population - and what I mean by that is that there is currently one severely impaired student that requires about 20-35 minutes of my time each class period, so I am forced to neglect the rest of the class.
I'm sorry, but 20-35 minutes per class is not a slight distraction, it's a major one. It adversely impacts the education of the other 20+ students in the class.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,068 posts, read 76,217,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulani View Post
Exactly! My family has this conversation a lot.
This is one of the main reasons I pulled my son out of school before he finished the 6th grade; he took a sample GED test right after I started homeschooling him and passed it the first time.

Mateo, if someone is a doctor and chooses to only work with children or the elderly, are they being "particular"?

I'm no expert, but I always assumed that a degree in Education and one in Special Education were not the same thing. Different fields equals different strokes for different folks!
Last year I was asked to have some dealings with 2 SPED kids that wore restraints and had a history of physical violence. Their full time aid was out. Neither of these 2 students were mainstreamed in any class due to their disabilities.

I looked that person straight in the eye and said I was not trained for SPED nor did I have the training or qualification to deal with SPED violence and restraint and that I had to decline because Federal laws are pretty strict in that area. They went off and found another mainstream teacher to do that job that day.
I was there as a long term sub until the end of the year so I really didn't give a hoot about worrying about my job. I wasn't "blacklisted" or anything because I've been back to that school numerous times since.
But I did word it in a way that THEY would be breaking the law by asking me to do what they wanted.

I am certified Math 4-8 and 8-12 as well as Gen Ed K-12. SPED is not an area I trained in nor had any interest in. There are SPED kids that I've had in my classes but not to the degree that these 2 SPED students were.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,068 posts, read 76,217,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
I'm sorry, but 20-35 minutes per class is not a slight distraction, it's a major one. It adversely impacts the education of the other 20+ students in the class.
Especially when the class is only 45 minutes long. I have enough trouble with behavior problems from the mainstreamed kids and the thought of having to focus on one student while the other 22 are left on their own would mean total chaos in some classes.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:40 AM
 
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
4,289 posts, read 3,934,748 times
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Our entire educational system is outdated. We can start by eliminating the Junior and Senior years of high school. They are a waste of time as these are covered in College and/or are just a bunch of elective classes. 16 year olds should already be either in college, a technical school or in an internship/apprenticeship program. As for Special-Needs education, even though I have a high schooler with Autism (non-Asp), I don't really know enough about it all to make any suggestions. I do know that he participates in a school-work program that helps them all get confidence and basic knowledge on how to work (and all that goes with that).
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:46 AM
 
Location: North Texas
24,571 posts, read 35,227,175 times
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I think there's a big difference between putting severely mentally retarded children into a mainstream classroom and giving a slow learner extra help, or by giving extra help to a child who is intellectually normal but has ADHD, Asperger's, or another disorder like dyslexia. With effective intervention these children can perform just as well as their peers.


I didn't go to public school so I have no experience with this whatsoever. However it seems to me that a lot of SPED is just babysitting.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:14 PM
 
57,654 posts, read 45,502,749 times
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Um, a couple points.

1) Around here, special education is for the whole range of students including those with learning disabilites AND those that need to be challenged more. Not sure how the funding shows this...?

2) If you are in a smaller town I can see how you might not have the opportunity to accelerate your kids math....but around here the schools are excellent with pathways for kids to take advanced classes. Mine were taking honors geometry at the highschool while still in junior high.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:25 PM
 
Location: central Oregon
1,877 posts, read 2,232,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Last year I was asked to have some dealings with 2 SPED kids that wore restraints and had a history of physical violence. Their full time aid was out. Neither of these 2 students were mainstreamed in any class due to their disabilities.

I looked that person straight in the eye and said I was not trained for SPED nor did I have the training or qualification to deal with SPED violence and restraint and that I had to decline because Federal laws are pretty strict in that area. They went off and found another mainstream teacher to do that job that day.
I was there as a long term sub until the end of the year so I really didn't give a hoot about worrying about my job. I wasn't "blacklisted" or anything because I've been back to that school numerous times since.
But I did word it in a way that THEY would be breaking the law by asking me to do what they wanted.

I am certified Math 4-8 and 8-12 as well as Gen Ed K-12. SPED is not an area I trained in nor had any interest in. There are SPED kids that I've had in my classes but not to the degree that these 2 SPED students were.
Exactly! Thank you for helping to make my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
I think there's a big difference between putting severely mentally retarded children into a mainstream classroom and giving a slow learner extra help, or by giving extra help to a child who is intellectually normal but has ADHD, Asperger's, or another disorder like dyslexia. With effective intervention these children can perform just as well as their peers.


I didn't go to public school so I have no experience with this whatsoever. However it seems to me that a lot of SPED is just babysitting.
I pulled my Aspie son out of school because he was a distraction to the rest of the class. He is super smart and would be done his work in minutes - then talk and get in trouble. Poor guy knew everyone in the offices of two grade schools.

It's even more of a distraction when dealing with the severely retarded. The child I mentioned above had the mentality of a one year old. She should never have been placed in a class with normal four year olds - and a teacher with no formal training with the disabled.

I remember (many years ago) I saw a story on the news about a child (in a hospital bed) that had been mainstreamed. He had an aid that did EVERYTHING for him, and all he did was lie there and drool. I remember asking, "What's the purpose?" I figured he was there more or less to be babysat for free while mom and dad worked. Sure beats paying out the nose for private school.

I do agree that every child needs an education. However, every child is not going to learn at the same rate. Let's group by ability and keep it really simple. I'm even for more spending for the SPED students - if they are grouped by ability also.
But mainstreaming someone so far below his age peers that he needs one-on-one for most of the class is just wrong. Giving this child extra funding at the expense of the rest of the class is just wrong.
Anyone that says there is no resentment from the other students has their head where the sun don't shine.
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