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If my kids were of Scouting age, I would be far, far more concerned about them joining a group that is anti-atheist than I would be if there were openly gay leaders and members in the group.
That's why your kids would probably never join the Scouts. That's how freedom works.
That's why your kids would probably never join the Scouts. That's how freedom works.
My son never did - although we did take him to a cub orientation meeting.
At the end, there was a prayer for Jesus Christ, their Saviour and - well
needless to say, we never returned...
I had mixed feelings on it, simply because when a child is little
you simply don't know what their religious following or lack of is
going to be later in life.
Legally, the BSA have every right to ban who they want as a private organization.
But we all know money talks and bull**** walks, so they have reversed in many
cases due to dropping of sponsorship.
The legal argument now is that they use public lands e.g. federal parks and therefore
can't discriminate.
Atheists are the most discriminated against; that is for sure. It's accepted more
because so many in America disagree with us.... but
There are many ways to skin a cat as they say ...or tie a rope... or start a fire...
BTW- the Girl Scouts of America do allow atheists and gays.
And you know what they say, Women Should rule the World
You've missed the point. Let's say for arguments sake, that every adult male who performs the heinous act of molesting a boy is, as you say, gay. The fact is, the majority of these predators who would pray upon a young scout would not be openly gay, they would most likely be acting like Gary Sandusky. Married, but with pedophile tendencies. Gary Sandusky, while married, might well be gay. We're not him so we don't know.
So the dilemma is not about keeping gay men out of the scouts, its about keeping predators out of the scouts. Predators come in all shapes and sizes: Married, gay and partnered, closeted gay, single, divorced, etc. Every one of those groups will have a bad apple or two. Being gay doesn't automatically make you a predator. Being attracted to children does.
According to one of the largest studies of child molestors in the US (the Abel and Harlow 2001 study of over 4000 child molestors), the vast majority of men who molested boys were heterosexual men with adult attractions to women. Only a small percentage (7%) of child molestors were actually 'fixated' pedophiles (only attracted to children and not to adults). Only about 8% of the men who molested boys were homosexual men with adult attractions to men.
Over 60 years of research on sex offenders supports the results of this study. The FBI profile sex offenders based on this research.
Most child sexual abuse is about power - and easy access to someone they can control. That's why it happens most often in families.
No, GuyNTexas didn't miss the point. His agenda is simply to draw an equivalence between gays and pedophiles. He wants to blur the line between the two. The ensuing discussion is merely intended to give the impression that there's an honest debate over the relationship between gays and predators who victimize children.
He knows exactly what he's done.
There really is no 'debate' anymore amongst educated health professionals or law enforcement agencies like the FBI. There is far too much evidence from research on sex offenders that has been replicated over and over and over again over the past 60 years.
Attempting to create a 'debate' by using the self-interested conspiracy theory whacky views of the Church of Scientology to try to undermine the mental health professions is completely ridiculous. They believe humans are infected by bits of aliens and they can sell you expensive 'therapy' to 'clear' you.
He has already been exposed several times when he himself linked to Church of Scientology sources to support his views.
As for his views on homosexuality- once again the only time he ever gave sources for his 'information', they linked back to religious anti-gay propaganda sites.
He can deny it all he wants, but his post history is there for anyone to see.
Spreading grossly misinformed views about child sexual abuse is dangerous.
All it does is is make it easier for child molestors to hide and continue to abuse children.
I think this is a reasonable assumption! The hostility they have smells of fear and that can only be rooted in some deep seated insecurities. The sad thing is these unadjusted and self-loathing, shameful individuals project this onto an entire group of mostly adjusted, happy and responsible individuals.
As a well adjusted and professional adult gay man, I resent the fact that anyone would conclude that I enjoy sex with minors and want to take advantage of children. Complete B.S and it's sad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinebar
I actually believe that at least some of the most vocal ones, and the most hateful, here (a couple of specific ones come to my mind) may very well be struggling with their own sexual identities.
Their homophobia has no rationality behind it and I suspect may be based in their own fear of feelings they have had in the past or may be having still.
Especially the former Scouts who have posted and who are the most vehemently against gay Scouts; I have to wonder if at least a couple of them, on those Scouting camp outs, weren't getting tents - within a tent.
This thread is a perfect example of some guys who are so insecure in their masculinity that they think any gay guys in the same room will expose them for the fragile creatures that they are.
I also suspect that gay men are on average a lot more "tough guys" than some people want to believe, and are capable of forming completely platonic friendships with straight guys because they share similar interests. All they're asking for is the right to be men. I begrudgingly understand (although do not agree with) the whole religious-based reason of excluding gay men from Scouts, but the other stuff is just silly.
They aren't tough at all. Maybe to metrosexual girly men the women who love them. Out here, they stick out like a sore thumb. You're as q**** as the three dollar bill man.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlerain
Care to answer my question? How do you know they were all straight?
They aren't tough at all. Maybe to metrosexual girly men the women who love them. Out here, they stick out like a sore thumb. You're as q**** as the three dollar bill man.......
That's why your kids would probably never join the Scouts. That's how freedom works.
None of these people carry a knife daily themselves, much let their kid do it. The first time he would start a fire with anything other then a lighter or match, they would crap gold bricks. I'd pay money to see some 11-12 year old kid pull some lardass full grown man out of the lake too with what he knows and has learned.
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