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The problem is singling out an American citizen for assassination. There is a major difference.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
Once again we have someone unwilling to actually address what the problem is here. Nobody, absolutely nobody has argued or will ever argue that anyone is saying anyone has a right to attack America.
Well I've been addressing the problem and addressing it based upon long standing Supreme Court precedent and I have yet to read a rebuttal posted by you or anyone on the following points;
1. The 4th, 5th, 6th, nor 7th Amendment are not reserved soley for the protection of citizens.
2. Article II grants the Executive wide powers to execute wars.
3. The Congress in 2001 granted the Executive wide powers utilize all "necessary and appropriate force" against al Qaeda and its material supporters.
4. The Supreme Court ex Parte Quirin recognized that under Article II the authority of the executive to determine the status of enemy combatants and further recognize that by joining forces hostile to the U.S. lost those protections afforded by the Constitution.
Having said that, I too am uneasy with these powers but I am also a realist and part of that realism is that every four years we as a nation elect a person to the presidency who we consider to have the maturity and judgement to use those powers judiciously and in the case of Mr. Awalki I find not cause to reconsider the administration's judgement.
Perhaps if someone who care to present a compelling case on Mr. Awalki's behalf, I might reconsider.
I am pretty good with the Americans that have been droned to death....TO DATE...
Now I do have some reservations. I do think the adminstration has not been transparent enough and I think what i have seen as far as directives do not make it clear enough who can be targeted.
I also think the Obama team needs to engage congress as constitutionally Congress has a vital role to play in dealing with Treason. This should be a purely bi-partisian issue.
If they would clear up some points:
1. No bombing of Americans in America
2. Create LAW not executive position papers
3. Clearly define what a person needs to do to get drone attacked.... (Being a member of a clearly idenetified terror organization is enough for me)
A missle can be fired from a drone to a car traveling on a road where maybe, could be someone in the vehicle that maybe, might be involved sometime in the future in an act of terrorism, but if that same person was captured alive, brought to a building and waterboarded, it would be considered 'torture'. I think the person in the vehicle, not charged with any crime would rather be 'waterboarded' than have their guts spread all over a highway.
I do fully agree that we have a high level of hypocracy with Obama and guys like McCain who take the hard stance against waterboarding but have no issue putting a missle in the same person's earhole.
Personally I am for missles in terrorists years AND I am for a bucket of water poured in their mouth to make them talk. I prefer the timeline to be water first, earpokingmissle last.
Obama has slowly gained power as a dictator. My father once told me no person can be taken out of their home at night without just cause. My father also stated that this country was different because a communist country can take people out of their homes by the ruling powers and disappear and no one would ask questons because of fear. They could not speak out and had no voice in society or the media because it was controlled completely by the dictators.
Today we are headed in that direction. Our liberties are eroding and now we have drones that can fly over in our towns and back yards to spy or attack us. Big Brother is bigger than ever and if you think that this could not possibly happen here you are mistaken. Many people were fooled in history and it was too late to act. It is a slow process as socialism gets a foot hold and our rights taken away. Never say never. Many countries around the world are controlled by a dictator so it is very commonplace even today.
They will use many people as Hiitler had many who took orders from him. Murdering, human experimentation of which the likes are sadistic . A mad man got into power and it can happpen again.
The UK has noticed how we are falling as our rights are done away with and the government has the power to do as they will against the people.
I do fully agree that we have a high level of hypocracy with Obama and guys like McCain who take the hard stance against waterboarding but have no issue putting a missle in the same person's earhole.
If that is hypocrisy then all the Laws of Land Warfare are built upon pile of hypocrisy. Because one minute you can burn a soldier out of a pill box; shoot him through the head; stab him through the heart with a bayonet, but as soon as he holds up a white flag, you are then obligated to treat his wounds, feed him, cloth and shelter him and otherwise afford him the most humane treatment for the duration of hostilities.
Well I've been addressing the problem and addressing it based upon long standing Supreme Court precedent and I have yet to read a rebuttal posted by you or anyone on the following points;
[indent][indent]1. The 4th, 5th, 6th, nor 7th Amendment are not reserved soley for the protection of citizens.
I DID address this. I addressed it just yesterday.
Here is what the courts through years of cases and precedent have ruled. Those Amendments are applicable to citizens no questions asked. As you note, only a few Amendments apply to all, not all. That is because we have decided to apply certain rights to others.
The courts have ruled that it is up to Congress who else would fall or not fall under the rights granted. That Congress can grant them or take away these rights to non citizens BUT not citizens.
So they can grant an alien the right to due process. They do not need to grant that right to citizens. If they want, they can remove the rights of due process to non citizens, they can not citizens.
By passing the resolution giving the president a right to carry out the war here, they gave him the right to target whoever he wants, except American citizens.
Quote:
2. Article II grants the Executive wide powers to execute wars.
3. The Congress in 2001 granted the Executive wide powers utilize all "necessary and appropriate force" against al Qaeda and its material supporters.
4. The Supreme Court ex Parte Quirin recognized that under Article II the authority of the executive to determine the status of enemy combatants and further recognize that by joining forces hostile to the U.S. lost those protections afforded by the Constitution.
No they did not. That is exactly why they gave Bush a big F.U. when he decided that he could throw citizens into prison and deny them their due process.
Quote:
Having said that, I too am uneasy with these powers but I am also a realist and part of that realism is that every four years we as a nation elect a person to the presidency who we consider to have the maturity and judgement to use those powers judiciously and in the case of Mr. Awalki I find not cause to reconsider the administration's judgement.
Perhaps if someone who care to present a compelling case on Mr. Awalki's behalf, I might reconsider.
There is only one argument for him. He was an American citizen with due process rights acknowledged by the Constitution.
Obama has slowly gained power as a dictator. My father once told me no person can be taken out of their home at night without just cause. My father also stated that this country was different because a communist country can take people out of their homes by the ruling powers and disappear and no one would ask questons because of fear. They could not speak out and had no voice in society or the media because it was controlled completely by the dictators.
Today we are headed in that direction. Our liberties are eroding and now we have drones that can fly over in our towns and back yards to spy or attack us. Big Brother is bigger than ever and if you think that this could not possibly happen here you are mistaken. Many people were fooled in history and it was too late to act. It is a slow process as socialism gets a foot hold and our rights taken away. Never say never. Many countries around the world are controlled by a dictator so it is very commonplace even today.
They will use many people as Hiitler had many who took orders from him. Murdering, human experimentation of which the likes are sadistic . A mad man got into power and it can happpen again.
The UK has noticed how we are falling as our rights are done away with and the government has the power to do as they will against the people.
Your father must have been about my age. We who are that old surely did think like you say he did but most of us still around have seen us going the direction you mention later in that post.
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