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Old 02-10-2013, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Texas
37,949 posts, read 17,854,786 times
Reputation: 10371

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22 View Post
Reading your posts show that a little bit of knowledge is scary. At the time of the collapse Fannie and Freddie only held about 30% of defaulted loans.
It was about the loans themselves not who held them. Helloooooooo

Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22 View Post
The ALT A loans were a larger portion of defaults and these typically went to those with higher incomes and decent credit but the income documentation requirements were weaker thus allowing more exploitation and subsequent varieties of predatory lending like balloon payment adjustable rate mortgages that require serial refinancing.
This is what happens when government manipulates the free market. Investors who saw the low, below market interest rates and jumped. Booms and busts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22 View Post
I'm not saying that the democrats didn't have a role in facilitating policies that effected the bubble... but to make the assertion that it solely came from those who were duped into loans they couldn't afford shows a pretty remarkable amount of ignorance.
Good that you know it was bi partisan, Who told you it was?
And you missed the point yet again. The Federal Reserve lower than market interest rate caused the mal investment. It was the same type of "free money" that caused the Great Depression. It is the same type of "free money" that has caused the cost of college to sky rocket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22 View Post
...and I copy and paste articles to cite statistics for what I'm saying. It's fairly worthless to assert some opinion with nothing to back it up.............as you've done.
The only thing worthless here is your idiotic attempt to deflect from what caused the collapse. Making loans to people who couldn't pay it back. AND without the Federal Reserve lowering interest rates below market AND government strong arming lending institutions to make those loans in order to get "preferred" interest rates not many banks would have risked making those loans.

Last edited by Loveshiscountry; 02-10-2013 at 08:42 PM..
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Lincoln, NE (via SW Virginia)
1,644 posts, read 2,171,651 times
Reputation: 1071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
It was about the loans themselves not who held them. Helloooooooo.

----are you really stupid enough to think that the entire global economy was brought to its knees in 07-08 because some mortgage defaults? That was apart of it but a large portion was who held them, amongst other things. You should take some time out of your "busy" day and read some other interpretations of the financial crisis other than that idiot Hannity.

This is what happens when government manipulates the free market. Investors who saw the low, below market interest rates and jumped. Booms and busts.

---wrong. The system of Fannie and Freddie had worked for decades with no issue whatsoever...Fannie and Freddie securitized the loans assuming they met credit standards which allowed private banks to lend more. Do you think it is a coincidence that around the time the bubble began to inflate that Fannie and Freddie begn losing marketshare like crazy...it went from 50% to around 30% overnight. Firms like bear Stearns and Lehman began packaging high risk loans with scrupulous credit rankings, getting credit agencies to bless them, and then passing them along to tons investors for billions upon billions, all the while they were unaware of the risk involved because the loans were fraught with predatory tools like balloon payment mortgages, hybrid ARMS, and negative amortization. It was the poor performance of private label securities that caused the meltdown...not your borderline retarded excuse of "people can't pay their mortgage."

Good that you know it was bi partisan, Who told you it was?
And you missed the point yet again. The Federal Reserve lower than market interest rate caused the mal investment. It was the same type of "free money" that caused the Great Depression. It is the same type of "free money" that has caused the cost of college to sky rocket.

---you really need to expand beyond Ron Paul's talking points. The Democrats had a handle in it but IMO it stops at Clinton's signature on the repeal of glass Steagall......which the GOP wanted with all of their hearts anyway.

The only thing worthless here is your idiotic attempt to deflect from what caused the collapse. Making loans to people who couldn't pay it back. AND without the Federal Reserve lowering interest rates below market AND government strong arming lending institutions to make those loans in order to get "preferred" interest rates not many banks would have risked making those loans.
The only thing worthless here is your reductionism of the global financial crisis to some people not paying their mortgage. Why don't you do yourself a favor and read a few books on the meltdown instead of taking your talking points from the retards that inhabit fox news
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,713,615 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Just remember, income taxes came into being with the creation of the Federal Reserve.
This was done by the banksters and for the banksters.
IRS created in 1862.
Federal Reserve was created 51 years later.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:43 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,896 posts, read 11,983,133 times
Reputation: 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
I was not aware that they wanted to deregulate Wall Street as well.

Hopefully they deregulate the Police Force and many laws in this country then at the same, so that citizens can take matters into their own hands against the banksters.
I really cannot use enough colorful metaphors for those greedy scumbags!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog View Post
Are you a "social liberal and fiscal conservative?" That's a Libertarian.

Here's the 2012 Platform of the Libertarian Party (Platform | Libertarian Party), in easy to understand words. How many of these policies do you NOT agree with?

1.1. Freedom of speech and religion.

1.2 Protection from unreasonable search and seizure; no victimless crimes.

1.3 No discrimination regarding sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity.

2.3 Since energy is needed to fuel a modern society (and money is not unlimited), "government should not be subsidizing any particular form of energy.”

1.4 “Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter…”

1.5 No victimless crimes; restitution to victims at the expense of the wrongdoer; Constitutional rights for the accused (due process, a speedy trial, legal counsel, trial by jury, and the legal presumption of innocence).

1.6 “The only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights;” 2nd Amendment rights.

2.1 Private property rights (unless it infringes the rights of others); no laws controlling wages, prices, rents, profits, production, and interest rates; freedom of trade.

2.2 Government as well as private landowners are accountable for pollution and misuse of resources; technological innovations and behavioral changes are the most effective way to protect the environment.

2.3 Opposition of all government control of energy pricing, allocation, and production.

2.4 Repeal of the 16th Amendment (which allowed federal income tax and established the IRS); abolishing “all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution,” mandating a federal balanced budget and prohibiting federal debt.

2.5 Free market banking and competition between banks, halt to inflationary monetary policies (i.e. devaluation of the dollar or encouraging hyperinflation).

2.6 Opposition to “government subsidies to business, labor, or any other special interest;” stopping the government from performing functions that can be done by the private sector.

2.7 Repeal of laws that impede the ability to find employment; freedom to join a union or not; freedom for an employer to recognize a union or not.

2.8 Parental control and responsibility for all funds expended for their children's education; privatization of education.

2.9 Health insurance available across state lines; freedom to determine the health care providers, the level of health care and health insurance they want (if any), the medicines and treatments they want, and all other aspects of their medical care, including end-of-life decisions.

2.10 Phasing out Social Security and transition to a private voluntary system.

3.1 Abandonment of using the military as “policemen for the world,” opposition to a draft, and maintenance of a military suffient to defend the nation (not the world) from aggression.

3.2 Defense-related intelligence gathering should not take precedence over Individual rights; oversight and transparency of government intelligence agencies required; prohibition from government withholding necessary public information by calling it “classified.”

3.3. Stop foreign aid and foreign military intervention; “seek an America at peace with the world.”

3.4 Support free trade and immigration (except for those who pose a threat).

3.5 No discrimination based on sex, wealth, ethnicity, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political preference or sexual orientation; parents have the right to raise children according to their own beliefs (except when it results in child abuse or neglect).

3.6 Free elections that do not exclude alternative candidates; end tax-subsidized candidates and parties.

3.7 The right of the people to alter or abolish any government that becomes destructive of individual liberty.

3.8 Silence regarding any issue does not imply approval.

If you truly hate any of these, please indicate why. And remember that Social Security is already going to be gutted by the current government (leaving the under 55-crowd with little or nothing) anyway, with Libertarians fighting to prevent this fiasco for future Americans.
To me, it's a no-brainer. I mean seriously, what is there on this list to disagree with? As fo SS... I'm in that under 55 crowd, and have been forced to pay into it since I started working at 16. Now you're telling me that something that was supposed to be there for me when I retired, may very well not be??? Then give me my money back!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Libertarians are Constitutionalists.

The deal with Dems and Repubs, One wants to use God and the other wants to be God.
Libertarians, just want to be left alone with their God.
Nice way of putting it BentBow.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,474,193 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22 View Post
The only thing worthless here is your reductionism of the global financial crisis to some people not paying their mortgage. Why don't you do yourself a favor and read a few books on the meltdown instead of taking your talking points from the retards that inhabit fox news
the real question is why are you in denial???

the facts have been presented to you, but yet you still deny

the housing issue.....was GOVERNMENT (fannie and freedie)

the economic crash...was loss of jobs by liberals (globalist) policies and a housing crash caused by liberal policies
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Lincoln, NE (via SW Virginia)
1,644 posts, read 2,171,651 times
Reputation: 1071
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
the real question is why are you in denial???

the facts have been presented to you, but yet you still deny

the housing issue.....was GOVERNMENT (fannie and freedie)

the economic crash...was loss of jobs by liberals (globalist) policies and a housing crash caused by liberal policies

I'm not the one in denial. The crisis was a bipartisan effort, my friend. Wall Street had a hand, deregulation had a hand, Fannie and Freddie had a hand, affordable housing requirements potentially had a hand, predatory lending had a hand, hybrid ARMs and negatize amortization had a hand.....I'm willing to admit that my side had some fault in it. You and your O'Reily sheep are the ones too blinded by your own party's interpretation to step back and look at the crisis from more than one (misguided) point of view.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:16 AM
 
7 posts, read 6,859 times
Reputation: 25
Yea I totally agree with you guys, Rand Paul and Ron Paul are so anti-american they need to gtfo of our country! There is no room for them and their stupid constitution here, that stuff is so old fashioned. We need to look to the "dad of our country" Mr. Obama for new innovative ideas like expanding the FED and using drones to keep us nice and safe.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Lincoln, NE (via SW Virginia)
1,644 posts, read 2,171,651 times
Reputation: 1071
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog View Post
Are you a "social liberal and fiscal conservative?" That's a Libertarian.

Here's the 2012 Platform of the Libertarian Party (Platform | Libertarian Party), in easy to understand words. How many of these policies do you NOT agree with?

1.1. Freedom of speech and religion.

----I agree

1.2 Protection from unreasonable search and seizure; no victimless crimes.

---I agree

1.3 No discrimination regarding sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity.

---I agree

2.3 Since energy is needed to fuel a modern society (and money is not unlimited), "government should not be subsidizing any particular form of energy.”

---The government should look into assistance for promising fuels/energy sources to assist in freeing ourselves from the chains of foreign energies. It's a national security issue, IMO.

1.4 “Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter…”

---I agree

1.5 No victimless crimes; restitution to victims at the expense of the wrongdoer; Constitutional rights for the accused (due process, a speedy trial, legal counsel, trial by jury, and the legal presumption of innocence).

---I agree

1.6 “The only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights;” 2nd Amendment rights.

---I agree with this...But background checks aren't an abridgement to your right to own a gun. No one is talking about "banning" guns.

2.1 Private property rights (unless it infringes the rights of others); no laws controlling wages, prices, rents, profits, production, and interest rates; freedom of trade.

---I'm not a fan of NAFTA at all and I absolutely disagree with disregarding a minimum wage. Companies have no incentive to pay you more...especially for lower end labor. Obviously a skilled job doesn't need minimum wage controls, but the issue of concern is for menial level workers.

2.2 Government as well as private landowners are accountable for pollution and misuse of resources; technological innovations and behavioral changes are the most effective way to protect the environment.

---I grew up in coal country in southern appalachia. I'm very much a labor liberal...I could give a sh*t less about the environmental side of my party.

2.3 Opposition of all government control of energy pricing, allocation, and production.

---We need prices set on energy resources to prevent price gouging...(See Water/Electricity prices in Bolivia after privatization)

2.4 Repeal of the 16th Amendment (which allowed federal income tax and established the IRS); abolishing “all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution,” mandating a federal balanced budget and prohibiting federal debt.

---You won't gain a lot of currency with us Libs on destroying the social safety net and wiping out any semblance on income equality that we have...albeit a small amount compared to other OECD nations.

2.5 Free market banking and competition between banks, halt to inflationary monetary policies (i.e. devaluation of the dollar or encouraging hyperinflation).

---Control of our dollar and fiscal policy can be remarkably beneficial in terms of market heatups. Obviosuly theres abuse that needs to be dealt with but an entirely "free market" system isn't the answer.

2.6 Opposition to “government subsidies to business, labor, or any other special interest;” stopping the government from performing functions that can be done by the private sector.

---Government subsidies to business have resulted in some of the most cutting edge medical research in the world.

2.7 Repeal of laws that impede the ability to find employment; freedom to join a union or not; freedom for an employer to recognize a union or not.

---These laws don't "impede" employment. They mandate that the workers join a body that fights for their rights against payment, benefit, and labor related injustices....Now, that being said...A lot of labor unions are outgrowing their original worth...So it's hit or miss.

2.8 Parental control and responsibility for all funds expended for their children's education; privatization of education.

---I would argue we need a more centralized education program. All of the education systems that are succesful (Finland in particular) spend considerably less per student yet have much better results. Their system is highly centralized which allows for a much more streamlined system.

2.9 Health insurance available across state lines; freedom to determine the health care providers, the level of health care and health insurance they want (if any), the medicines and treatments they want, and all other aspects of their medical care, including end-of-life decisions.

---National Health Care....Not national insurance like Obamacare. Obama's system is quite possibly the only thing worse than what we had before. We need a fully nationalized health system. Obama's plan exacerbates the worst parts of our "healthcare" system.

2.10 Phasing out Social Security and transition to a private voluntary system.

--- The funding needs reform...the system doesn't need scraped. I personally don't have a problem with it becoming a means tested system. However, the budget proposed by the Congressional Progressive Caucus includes a series of cuts in defense and revenue increases that shows that SS can be long term solvent without and massive implementation changes. It's just a matter of being willing to make the tough choices when it comes to cuts in unnecessary spending and revenue increases across the board.

3.1 Abandonment of using the military as “policemen for the world,” opposition to a draft, and maintenance of a military suffient to defend the nation (not the world) from aggression.

---Agree

3.2 Defense-related intelligence gathering should not take precedence over Individual rights; oversight and transparency of government intelligence agencies required; prohibition from government withholding necessary public information by calling it “classified.”

---Agree

3.3. Stop foreign aid and foreign military intervention; “seek an America at peace with the world.”

---I agree...I detest the idea of foreign aid and military invervention abroad when we have so many in need at home.

3.4 Support free trade and immigration (except for those who pose a threat).

---I'm iffy on free trade agreements.

3.5 No discrimination based on sex, wealth, ethnicity, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political preference or sexual orientation; parents have the right to raise children according to their own beliefs (except when it results in child abuse or neglect).

---I agree

3.6 Free elections that do not exclude alternative candidates; end tax-subsidized candidates and parties.

---I agree

3.7 The right of the people to alter or abolish any government that becomes destructive of individual liberty.

--- Lol

3.8 Silence regarding any issue does not imply approval.

If you truly hate any of these, please indicate why. And remember that Social Security is already going to be gutted by the current government (leaving the under 55-crowd with little or nothing) anyway, with Libertarians fighting to prevent this fiasco for future Americans.

Answers above
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:19 AM
 
79,914 posts, read 44,174,531 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
the real question is why are you in denial???

the facts have been presented to you, but yet you still deny

the housing issue.....was GOVERNMENT (fannie and freedie)

the economic crash...was loss of jobs by liberals (globalist) policies and a housing crash caused by liberal policies
The government would have been unable to do this on their own. It was the government looking the other way concerning all the fraud, but it wasn't actually the government committing the fraud.

There were many entities happy to go along and all are responsible.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,474,193 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22 View Post
I'm not the one in denial. The crisis was a bipartisan effort, my friend. Wall Street had a hand, deregulation had a hand, Fannie and Freddie had a hand, affordable housing requirements potentially had a hand, predatory lending had a hand, hybrid ARMs and negatize amortization had a hand.....I'm willing to admit that my side had some fault in it. You and your O'Reily sheep are the ones too blinded by your own party's interpretation to step back and look at the crisis from more than one (misguided) point of view.
it seems you are the one wearing blinders

1. both democrats and republcans can be LIBERAL...or GLOBALISTS

2. for that very reason I dont use the party democrats

carter/bush1/ clinton/ bush2/ obama....all globalists

deregulation had a hand..yes
wall street pushed by GLOBALIST POLICIES had a hand yes...remember back in the 90's when they ALL said """the stock market is doing great, its a great ecominy...we will hit that magic 10k mark"""

fannie and fredie had a BIG hand in the housing crisis...when CLINTON pushed for changes that allowed (and made norm) all these exotic mortgages
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