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Old 02-09-2013, 08:39 AM
 
79,914 posts, read 44,174,531 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
You don't cut government spending when your economy is in a bad recession. Government spending accounts for 25% of total GDP.
They have no money. Do you not understand......they have NO money. It's like some people live in a dream world. They have NO money.

Quote:
The best policies are balanced. In a recession, spend on government programs that are on long term investments--infrastructure, education, R and D. Then when the recession ends, you scale back on government spending in measured steps, not all at once in a drastic fashion.

An austere government in a bad recession is probably the worst strategy you could pursue and will just prolong and worsen a recession and could have severe social consequences that can disrupt the fabric that holds a society together. Just look at Europe.

Europe got into a lot of debt after the world economy collapsed just like the US. It's amazing how the people and organizations responsible for 2008 STILL have not been arrested. And look at all the continuing suffering they've caused all over the globe--still 5 years later.
Your last point is another subject and something I agree with you on but you can not simply continue spending when you have NO money and can't afford to borrow any more or nobody is willing to give it to you.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:45 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,677,756 times
Reputation: 22474
Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
You don't cut government spending when your economy is in a bad recession. Government spending accounts for 25% of total GDP.

The best policies are balanced. In a recession, spend on government programs that are on long term investments--infrastructure, education, R and D. Then when the recession ends, you scale back on government spending in measured steps, not all at once in a drastic fashion.

An austere government in a bad recession is probably the worst strategy you could pursue and will just prolong and worsen a recession and could have severe social consequences that can disrupt the fabric that holds a society together. Just look at Europe.

Europe got into a lot of debt after the world economy collapsed just like the US. It's amazing how the people and organizations responsible for 2008 STILL have not been arrested. And look at all the continuing suffering they've caused all over the globe--still 5 years later.
So do you suggest they just double or triple their national debt and keep give their welfare class much better handouts? That's what the US is doing an our poverty is only growing as fast as our debt.

Or do you just print out money to avoid raising the national debt and give it to your growing welfare class and pretend everything's good?
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:46 AM
 
79,914 posts, read 44,174,531 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
So do you suggest they just double or triple their national debt and keep give their welfare class much better handouts? That's what the US is doing an our poverty is only growing as fast as our debt.

Or do you just print out money to avoid raising the national debt and give it to your growing welfare class and pretend everything's good?
European countries can't just print money.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:20 AM
 
4,534 posts, read 4,928,311 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
So do you suggest they just double or triple their national debt and keep give their welfare class much better handouts? That's what the US is doing an our poverty is only growing as fast as our debt.

Or do you just print out money to avoid raising the national debt and give it to your growing welfare class and pretend everything's good?


Since when is ALL of government spending "welfare handouts"? US government spending accounts for much more than just welfare. Also, when people get welfare they buy things which in turn go to a business owner. And that business owner goes on to spend money to buy inventory.


Tell me, how much did US government debt levels rise during WWII? The US government funded WWII on a credit card and spent money the government didn't have. The US was able to pull out of the Great Depression because of a MASSIVE intervention by the government with spending which tripled the debt.

Debt is a problem of course, but it is a much wiser policy to deal with debt after you get out of a terrible recession. The US didn't end when debt tripled during WWII. Massive government spending got the US out of The Great Depression and we subsequently addressed debt levels once our economy recovered.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:22 AM
 
4,534 posts, read 4,928,311 times
Reputation: 6327
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
They have no money. Do you not understand......they have NO money. It's like some people live in a dream world. They have NO money.



Your last point is another subject and something I agree with you on but you can not simply continue spending when you have NO money and can't afford to borrow any more or nobody is willing to give it to you.


The only people living in a dream world are people that try to compare a government and a country's finances to an individual. A government and country has many other options to deal with debt than an individual.

Again, tell me how the US got out of The Great Depression.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,882,036 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
The only people living in a dream world are people that try to compare a government and a country's finances to an individual. A government and country has many other options to deal with debt than an individual.

Again, tell me how the US got out of The Great Depression.

By exporting goods to a world left in shambles. Ya see us being a net exporter again?
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:31 AM
 
Location: South Dakota
2,608 posts, read 2,096,626 times
Reputation: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
The only people living in a dream world are people that try to compare a government and a country's finances to an individual. A government and country has many other options to deal with debt than an individual.

Again, tell me how the US got out of The Great Depression.
We destroyed Europe and Japan and made the US dollar the reserve currency....

Then we went on a huge manufacturing binge...
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:32 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,028,702 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
The best policies are balanced. In a recession, spend on government programs that are on long term investments--infrastructure, education, R and D. Then when the recession ends, you scale back on government spending in measured steps, not all at once in a drastic fashion.
Cut spending when the economy is good? I'd agree but trying get that past the liberals as to why we need to cut spending when the tax revenue is rolling in.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:43 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,677,756 times
Reputation: 22474
Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
Since when is ALL of government spending "welfare handouts"? US government spending accounts for much more than just welfare. Also, when people get welfare they buy things which in turn go to a business owner. And that business owner goes on to spend money to buy inventory.


Tell me, how much did US government debt levels rise during WWII? The US government funded WWII on a credit card and spent money the government didn't have. The US was able to pull out of the Great Depression because of a MASSIVE intervention by the government with spending which tripled the debt.

Debt is a problem of course, but it is a much wiser policy to deal with debt after you get out of a terrible recession. The US didn't end when debt tripled during WWII. Massive government spending got the US out of The Great Depression and we subsequently addressed debt levels once our economy recovered.
The government doesn't have the money. Any money the government has is from taxpayers. Robbing the taxpayers to give their incomes to the fast growing welfare class takes money from the taxpayer and makes it so the taxpayer has less money to spend and invest.

Nothing is produced, this is only income redistribution. Take from those who worked for it -- who now can't spend it themselves, and give to those who didn't work for it.

Example -- you have two kids. You offer them some chore to do so they can have money to buy something. One kid gets busy and works hard so you give him $20. The other kid decided to lay in front of the television and play video games, he didn't want to work. The working kid could have $20 to spend but you turn into Obama and tell him it's not fair that he has more so you take $10 away from him to give to your lazy kid. There is still just $20 between the two of them, all you did was reward the lazy one with the money they hard working kid earned.
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