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Old 02-15-2013, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 6,354,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
You are lucky that I have a little time to burn, because that's the only reason I'm even bothering to discuss this with you. Your grasp on theology - or rather lack thereof - is abysmal.

According to mainstream Christian theology, Jesus came to earth SPECIFICALLY to die as a sacrifice for the sins of mankind. Why would He "protect Himself" when His GOAL was to be arrested, tried, convicted, and crucified?



You have to put this in context. You're pulling random verses, out of context, and trying to apply them universally. That's akin to my grown kids thinking that they can never walk out into a street because I told them when they were four, "Stay out of the street."

Context. Context. Audience. Historical setting. You know - common sense in other words.



I am really repeating myself here, so this is truly the last time I'm going to point out this blatant flaw in your reasoning.

Christian teachings do not teach personal irresponsibility. Of course, we believe in God's omnipotent wisdom and we believe He has a plan for our lives. This does NOT mean we behave recklessly or irresponsibly because "God is going to protect us." The bible is chock full of advice and edicts stressing that we are to live responsible lives and that we are to safeguard ourselves, our families, and the property that we own. We are to be good stewards of the blessings in our lives, but we are also supposed to be willing to give them up - to serve God, not to line the pockets of criminals.

Using your flawed logic, I could just quit wearing seatbelts, chain smoke, and walk out in front of 18 wheelers - because God is going to protect me.

Give me a break. You may fall for such faulty reasoning, but I certainly don't.
Show me 1 place in the New Testament where a Christian believer used violence against other men and was blessed/encouraged/applauded for doing it. Just 1.

The teaching of "love thy enemy" is a very clear lesson about human interaction. If you want to walk in front of an 18-wheeler, that's your business. Jesus came to show us how to act with our fellow man, not how to avoid being hit by cars, or how to live healthy lives by not smoking. The one is interpersonal. The other is intrapersonal and is irrelevant.

Being a "good steward" is about being responsible. It is NOT about killing people who want to take your VCR.


Peace.
brian
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,652 posts, read 60,589,303 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero View Post
I see no indication that he intended his disciples to protect themselves either. He said Christians would be persecuted as he was. He said to love our enemies and turn the other cheek. He said we are not of this world. And the Apostles didn't defend themselves in his name, they were martyred.

I'm not saying you shouldn't or can't, merely that I see no evidence Jesus told us to, seeing as Christians are only here temporarily anyway and should look to God's kingdom.
The bible - the whole bible, not only the stories of Jesus - is what my Christian faith is based upon.

When reading what Jesus says, we can't take the words out of their historical context, or ignore their audience. If that was the case, why - all us Christians and Jews would be walking around minus our right eyes and our right hands! After all, Jesus did say "If your right eye offends you, pluck it out."
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,652 posts, read 60,589,303 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
This.

Though it's amazing the number of "Christians" who cannot wait for the chance to blow some guy away if they catch him stealing the GPS out of their car. Apparently if the bad guy chooses to do this in the parking lot of a church in Arkansas he'll be blown into teeny tiny pieces by all of Jesus' followers.

Oddly enough, the people blowing him away will be the same people who claim to be "pro-life".

Go figure.
I don't see this happening - at least not lawfully, because Arkansas law does not allow one to use deadly force unless you are in imminent physical danger.

THV Extra: A Time To Kill: Knowing Self-Defense Laws | todaysthv.com

That being said, one sure fire way for a person to avoid this scenario is to avoid stealing GPSes out of church parking lots.

That doesn't seem so hard to do. I mean, I'm fifty years old and I've yet to be sucked into a church parking lot by some sort of weird, unavoidable force, and compelled to break into peoples' cars.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,652 posts, read 60,589,303 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Show me 1 place in the New Testament where a Christian believer used violence against other men and was blessed/encouraged/applauded for doing it. Just 1.

The teaching of "love thy enemy" is a very clear lesson about human interaction. If you want to walk in front of an 18-wheeler, that's your business. Jesus came to show us how to act with our fellow man, not how to avoid being hit by cars, or how to live healthy lives by not smoking. The one is interpersonal. The other is intrapersonal and is irrelevant.

Being a "good steward" is about being responsible. It is NOT about killing people who want to take your VCR.


Peace.
brian
I've already given numerous passages out of the bible, including the New Testament, which support my position. I am not going to repeat myself.

As for shooting someone over a VCR, don't worry - I won't do that. I may, however, shoot them if they threaten violence against my family and I have no other way to stop that imminent threat.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,769,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
The bible - the whole bible, not only the stories of Jesus - is what my Christian faith is based upon.
So, BOTH of the following are Christian ideals?
“But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.”
-Exodus 21:23-25

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also”
-Matthew 5:38-39
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,652 posts, read 60,589,303 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
So, BOTH of the following are Christian ideals?
“But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.”
-Exodus 21:23-25

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also”
-Matthew 5:38-39
Those who follow the Christian faith should take the bible as a whole, reading things IN CONTEXT rather than cherry picking and pulling verses out of their historical context - which is what you are doing. Theologians doesn't use such amateurish techniques.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:21 PM
 
19,023 posts, read 25,919,820 times
Reputation: 7365
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Me either.

Hey, blue is my favorite color. And my astrological sign in Aquarius. I mean, we're just throwing random random facts about ourselves out, right?
I like green and i am a Sag..

I do Manitoe, but i am dammed hard up stuck to my guns.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
12,623 posts, read 13,889,635 times
Reputation: 5888
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Why not? Hell, the church began it's history in the Americas by killing people...may as well have guns in the church. The symbolism is perfect. Actually they should place gold plated guns in cases and display them like trophys right next to the other religious symbols.

You gave me a laugh. Great post.


Spanish Inquisition anyone??
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:30 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,091,970 times
Reputation: 32578
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also”
-Matthew 5:38-39
I love that passage. IMHO it separates the true Christians from the ones stopping at AmmoAndy's on the way home from work.

It's very hard to actually walk the walk of following Christ. You either do it...... or you decide that Christ would have blown away anyone who threatened Mary so you're justified in keeping a Colt in the glove box.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
12,623 posts, read 13,889,635 times
Reputation: 5888
Quote:
Originally Posted by italianuser View Post
Mmmh... let me see...
Guns + religious wackos + megachurches = DUMB****ISTAN!!!!
Thanks God, I don't live in Republitardistan (aka Whitetrashistan aka Dumb****istan aka Redneckistan) anymore

LOl, you mean the South.
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