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Nomander,you are talking with people who are emotionally involved with the whole slavery/lincoln/war for southern independence thing. All they see is lincoln issued the proclamation to free the slaves that's it. They don't realize he was a racist who hate blacks,they don't know the president of the CSA adopted a black child,etc etc...like I said its just dumb to argue with the majority of these knuckleheads.
I agree. I have a vested interest in opposing a** backwards confederate concepts...
To your other points. I don't hold any divine reverence for Abraham Lincoln. He was a man and just like all men, he had his faults. I have Lerone Bennett Jr's Forced into Glory in my library. I've read first hand accounts of his opinions of blacks. I know about the plans he had that didn't materialize.
On to your next point! Being part of the Confederacy wipes out all favorable views/actions. Adopting a black kid or not doesn't make someone any less scum. If you held the stars and bars you were on the opposite side of righteousness.
Even if they were black? How do you know none of your black ancestors fought for the confederacy?Oh I figure you don't realize that the stars and bars never flew over a slave ship but that flag you worship every day did.
Nifty, and cool beans, but that doesn't answer the question. In fact, it hides and scurries away from it because it is afraid to deal with it.
Whether it was the best way or not is really irrelevant. The people fighting for justice of the day used the tools that were available. Constitutional amendments being one of them! So yes, I believe in amending the constitution when necessary. Especially in this scenario!
Why do people think that only white people owned slaves. In the 1860 Census, there were over 1600 black slaveowners throughout the south, not counting new orleans where there were over 3000 black slave owners.
Exactly. If they would do a little reading they would know this. Some want to deny that fact.
Even if they were black? How do you know none of your black ancestors fought for the confederacy?Oh I figure you don't realize that the stars and bars never flew over a slave ship but that flag you worship every day did.
Not even "if they were black" “especially if they were blackâ€. I have a recorded family tree that goes back quite a few years. I’m pretty confident my ancestors didn't fight for the confederacy. Even with unknown variables the law of probability gives this scenario a very low likelihood.
Next point! I’m not getting where you came to the conclusion that I worship the flag. I worship god I don’t worship idols. And the slave ships (& crew) no matter what flag they flew were just as bad as the confederacy. ..
Why do people think that only white people owned slaves. In the 1860 Census, there were over 1600 black slaveowners throughout the south, not counting new orleans where there were over 3000 black slave owners.
I hear this lie told over and over.
First off, no one thinks that only whites owned slaves. If this is the case please point me in the direction of a credible history book that makes such a claim.
Second, the majority of blacks who owned other blacks did so to free their families. When ex-slaves bought their wives & children out of slavery how do you think it was recorded? There were blacks who owned slaves as workers but saying this was the majority is disingenuous…
By 1830 there were 3,775 black families living in the South who owned black slaves. By 1860 there were about 3,000 slaves owned by black households in the city of New Orleans alone.
In the rare instances when the ownership of slaves by free Negroes is acknowledged in the history books, justification centers on the claim that black slave masters were simply individuals who purchased the freedom of a spouse or child from a white slaveholder and had been unable to legally manumit them. Although this did indeed happen at times, it is a misrepresentation of the majority of instances, one which is debunked by records of the period on blacks who owned slaves. These include individuals such as Justus Angel and Mistress L. Horry, of Colleton District, South Carolina, who each owned 84 slaves in 1830. In fact, in 1830 a fourth of the free Negro slave masters in South Carolina owned 10 or more slaves; eight owning 30 or more (2).
In 1860 there were at least six Negroes in Louisiana who owned 65 or more slaves The largest number, 152 slaves, were owned by the widow C. Richards and her son P.C. Richards, who owned a large sugar cane plantation. Another Negro slave magnate in Louisiana, with over 100 slaves, was Antoine Dubuclet, a sugar planter whose estate was valued at (in 1860 dollars) $264,000 (3). That year, the mean wealth of southern white men was $3,978 (4).
In Charleston, South Carolina in 1860 125 free Negroes owned slaves; six of them owning 10 or more. Of the $1.5 million in taxable property owned by free Negroes in Charleston, more than $300,000 represented slave holdings (5). In North Carolina 69 free Negroes were slave owners (6).
To me the most important question in this conflict is does a state have the right to secede from the Union. This point will be argued forever more; but what I find illuminating is the the CSA's very own Constitution does not make availble to the CSA states that right and a pathway in that constitution to do so.
Preamble to the CSA Constitution proclaims the state is sovereign and independent...yet are linked to federal confederate government...permanently.
Quote:
"We, the people of the Confederate States, each State acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government ..."
And in the most ironic turn- The States that embraced "slavery"...when wanting their own freedom and "fleeing the shackles of the Union to be free" were returned to the Union...Bound forever.
First off, no one thinks that only whites owned slaves. If this is the case please point me in the direction of a credible history book that makes such a claim.
Second, the majority of blacks who owned other blacks did so to free their families. When ex-slaves bought their wives & children out of slavery how do you think it was recorded? There were blacks who owned slaves as workers but saying this was the majority is disingenuous…
Then you need to learn your history.
1. There are many people in this day and age who believe that only white people owned saves. I remember correcting my daughter years ago, when her history teacher tried teaching that nonsense, and I had to go to her school and meet with the principal over it.
2. You are VERY wrong on your second point, over 3000 black slave owners in the New Orleans area owned slaves to have a slave, not to buy a family member out of slavery. One of the richest plantation owners in the south was black, and owned MANY black slaves, and not to buy out family members. The 1860 census BTW records SLAVE OWNERS, not people bought out of slavery and freed.
BTW, do you realize the first slave owner in the U.S. was a black man? Prior to Anthony Johnson, we had indentured servants, who had to be freed after 7 years and given 50 acres of land.
In the rare instances when the ownership of slaves by free Negroes is acknowledged in the history books, justification centers on the claim that black slave masters were simply individuals who purchased the freedom of a spouse or child from a white slaveholder and had been unable to legally manumit them. Although this did indeed happen at times, it is a misrepresentation of the majority of instances, one which is debunked by records of the period on blacks who owned slaves. These include individuals such as Justus Angel and Mistress L. Horry, of Colleton District, South Carolina, who each owned 84 slaves in 1830. In fact, in 1830 a fourth of the free Negro slave masters in South Carolina owned 10 or more slaves; eight owning 30 or more (2).
BTW, I am a second generation American, NONE of my family ever owned slaves, or had ANYTHING to do with slavery. I am not a southerner or northerner, I am simply someone who actually became educated on this, because I had to do a debate in high school, first as a person against, the next week, for slavery.
In that way, our class learned, by performing in depth research from multiple sources.
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