Singles and couples, what are your reasons for not wanting/having children (accuse, brainwash)

[Camlon]

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

My mom is in her 70s and caring for her 95 year old mother. Her life is a living hell. You have no idea what you're talking about and you sound entitled and selfish.

Right, cause your grandmother represent all grandmothers on planet earth? Why aren't you helping, since you are so selfless.

Actually my grandpa is 92 years old, and he lives at home. And yes he can wipe his own butt, he can bath himself, he can cook his own food. But he can't drive. That's when he needs us. And he wants company. That's when he needs us.

People that age need to be in homes unless they are wealthy and can afford at home nursing care. Period.

No, they don't. They only need to be in homes if they are in terrible health like your grandma.

You really think it's rational to expect a family member, let alone a 70 year old, to carry you to the bathroom every time you have to crap, wipe your but, bathe you, cook for you three times a day, stay up with you all night while you suffer in pain, take you to never ending doctor appts, basically be your personal slave?

You do realize that most old people can do all of that themselves. What they need is someone to be there for them. To company them so they won't get lonely. To help them go to places when they need to.

Your grandmother do not represent all old people on planet earth. Next time, try to open your eyes. You are extremely self-centered. Not everyone is like you.

[Braunwyn]

Originally Posted by Camlon

Right, cause your grandmother represent all grandmothers on planet earth? Why aren't you helping, since you are so selfless.

It's called reality. People have to move and live where their employment is. People have to raise their own children. That you think your family's world should revolve around you caring for you is unbelievable. It's so entitled and self-involved. If you gave a rat's patootie about them, you would be planning not hedging your bets on becoming a dependent.

Actually my grandpa is 92 years old, and he lives at home. And yes he can wipe his own butt, he can bath himself, he can cook his own food. But he can't drive. That's when he needs us. And he wants company. That's when he needs us.

One stroke and he won't be able to do that.
Any adult should be planning for that care. Even in good health, if he stays alive he will need a full time care taker.One broken hip that lands him in the hospital will change his life. Keeping company is not the issue. Saying a 70 year old will be healthy enough to be a care giver is an all together different issue.

No, they don't. They only need to be in homes if they are in terrible health like your grandma.

A 90-something year old living independently is a rarity. 65-70% of our society is overweight/obese, which leads to significant health problems. The vast majority end up with diabetes, or are on cholesterol meds, blood pressure meds, or some kind of measure to artificially extend life and it's absurd to expect grown children, who have to care for their own children, work full time, run households, to be a care giver. Obviously you are not familiar with it, so really do not know what you speak of.

You do realize that most old people can do all of that themselves. What they need is someone to be there for them. To company them so they won't get lonely. To help them go to places when they need to.

Your grandmother do not represent all old people on planet earth. Next time, try to open your eyes. You are extremely self-centered. Not everyone is like you.

I don't know where you live, but chronic health problems among our aging population is very much a reality in the US.

We're getting sicker: More Americans have a chronic health condition
"More than one in five middle-aged U.S. adults, and nearly half of adults over age 65, have more than one chronic health condition, such as hypertension and diabetes, according to a new government report. ""
The Challenges of Chronic Disease
"Nearly 92% of older adults have at least one chronic condition, and 77% have at least two."

[Camlon]

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

It's called reality. People have to move and live where their employment is. People have to raise their own children.

There is employment everywhere. If you are so selfless, why don't you get a minimum wage job around your grandma and help her so your mum won't live in hell. Or maybe you should stop calling other people selfish, when you are selfish yourself.

That you think your family's world should revolve around you caring for you is unbelievable. It's so entitled and self-involved. If you gave a rat's patootie about them, you would be planning not hedging your bets on becoming a dependent.

It's called family values. You take care of your elderly. You don't leave them to rot. I will be there for my parents as they helped raise me. Whats so wrong with expecting the same from my kids?

One stroke and he won't be able to do that.

If he needs constant supervision then we will send him to an elderly home. I don't see the problem.

Keeping company is not the issue.

Yes it is. People get lonely and sad if they get no company. That is way worse than a broken hip.

A 90-something year old living independently is a rarity. 65-70% of our society is overweight/obese, which leads to significant health problems. The vast majority end up with diabetes, or are on cholesterol meds, blood pressure meds, or some kind of measure to artificially extend life and it's absurd to expect grown children, who have to care for their own children, work full time, run households, to be a care giver. Obviously you are not familiar with it, so really do not know what you speak of.

I don't know where you live, but chronic health problems among our aging population is very much a reality in the US.

I don't live in America, and we don't eat ourself to death. I am at a healthy weight, my girlfriend is at a healthy weight, and so is my parents and my grandpa. None in our family is obese, although some are overweight. And we take care of our elderly cause we got morals that you don't seem to have.

There is something in between taking care of your elderly full time, and being there for them. I am sorry you do not understand the difference.

[Braunwyn]

Originally Posted by Camlon

There is employment everywhere. If you are so selfless, why don't you get a minimum wage job around your grandma and help her so your mum won't live in hell. Or maybe you should stop calling other people selfish, when you are selfish yourself.

Great advice. End your career, don't worry about paying your student loans, your mortgage, or raising your children, but get a job for minimum wage to help take care of the grandparent. You are now doing the job of showing how absurd your position is.

It's called family values. You take care of your elderly. You don't leave them to rot. I will be there for my parents as they helped raise me. Whats so wrong with expecting the same from my kids?

You clearly have no idea what family values are about. You want to breed human beings to service you. It's pretty gross and it's unsustainable. People are staying alive artificially. People who would normally die in their late 60s/early 70s are living 10-20 years longer and this is just increasing. The care required is pretty extreme and instead of banking on becoming dependent, folk should use their brains and plan accordingly.

If he needs constant supervision then we will send him to an elderly home. I don't see the problem.

You are essentially saying that you won't care for him either. You are willing to give him a ride, but you don't want to be a caregiver. Why, then, does the health of a 70 year old even matter? I don't know what point you're arguing. Although, it's not simple n any direction. Given that you are earning minimum wage to be there to help him with rides, how in the world are you going to afford the 2-3k/mo for a nursing home? I'm curious about that one.

Yes it is. People get lonely and sad if they get no company. That is way worse than a broken hip.

No, that is not the issue. Having to be a healthy 70 year old (that was your argument, correct?) to care for an aging parent is the issue. You have no idea what kind of health is needed for such a job.

I don't live in America, and we don't eat ourself to death. I am at a healthy weight, my girlfriend is at a healthy weight, and so is my parents and my grandpa. None in our family is obese, although some are overweight. And we take care of our elderly cause we got morals that you don't seem to have.

Then why are you pontificating to a largely American board? Take the pulpit to your home country if there is an argument to be had. Although, it sounds like you are pretty young and really just have no idea of what you're talking about. Go and get some actual experience at nursing homes and hospice to get an idea of what it takes to care for the elderly.

I just back read your posts (New Zealand?) and according to this wiki, your country is number two in obesity, so I really don't know what you're talking about here. And you might want to learn about what's happening in your own country. You are having the same issues the US is.

There is something in between taking care of your elderly full time, and being there for them. I am sorry you do not understand the difference.

Any jack off can and does visit with family and spends time. That's not the issue we're discussing. The issue is having children to care for you in your old age, which is a huge job. A job that you are entirely unfamiliar with.

[angelinajolie]

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

My mom is in her 70s and caring for her 95 year old mother. Her life is a living hell. You have no idea what you're talking about and you sound entitled and selfish. Sorry, but that is the truth with your expectations. People that age need to be in homes unless they are wealthy and can afford at home nursing care. Period. You really think it's rational to expect a family member, let alone a 70 year old, to carry you to the bathroom every time you have to crap, wipe your but, bathe you, cook for you three times a day, stay up with you all night while you suffer in pain, take you to never ending doctor appts, basically be your personal slave? Because that's what people that old need if they're not going to live in home. What you and everybody else needs to be doing, if you plan on taking meds and extending your life, is working your arse off right now so that you can afford to go to assisted living when the time comes. Your family can visit you there.

Right. Wow. Can't believe the mentality of Americans with their elders. Do you know the most reason of people to have kids in my country?(I'm Asian) So they have someone to take care of them when they grow old. Because there are no caregiving jobs in my country. There are no rampant senior homes where you 'toss' your old parents.

Maybe that's also the reason why most caregivers are Filipinos here. We have no problem taking care of seniors, either that, or the Americans let us have that job.

My question to you is: what's so wrong with your mom doing all those with her 95 yr old mom?! May I remind you that once upon a time, her 95 yr old mom also carry your mom to the bathroom every time she have to crap, wipe her butt, bathe her, cook for her three times a day, stay up with her all night while she was sick, take her to never ending doctor appts, basically be her personal slave when she was born until 18 yrs I suppose?!!!


What's so wrong with taking care of your elderly parent when they took care of you since you were a helpless baby?!!! And now that they were a helpless old bag you don't wanna deal with it? Life is a cycle deal with it. I guess that's where our mentality/culture differs then.

[TabulaRasa]

Originally Posted by Dewdrop93

I think you either want children or you don't. Sometimes there are more reasons than that - but if you want children, then time, money, and stress don't matter. And if you don't want children - even if you had the time, money and were stress free - it probably still wouldn't make a difference.

This is pretty accurate. ^^

I would like a family, because my own family that I was raised in has been the most precious and valuable thing in my life. I would like an opportunity to be on the parent side of those relationships. I would like the opportunity for the same parent-child bond that my parents and I share. It's just something I value. I don't know that having children is an option for me. Time and medical constraints may determine that for me. Adoption and fostering are options, but not givens.

If I don't have children, there are still things in my life that will take up my time, cost money, and cause me stress...but most of them won't interest me nearly as much as the experience of being a parent does. Someone else mentioned "trading one set of experiences for another," and I think that's pretty accurate. My life won't be stress-free, without monetary concerns, or completely my own to schedule as I see fit, whether or not I have children...it's just who I am; I'll take on other responsibilities to take the place of parenting, I already do. If I don't have children, I will most likely work with foster and adoption groups, if I can't actually foster or adopt myself.

[Mooseketeer]

Chidless and Childfree and Happy to be !

I do not possess an ounce of maternal feeling, I find children noisy, dirty, exhausting, boring, self centered, and do not wish to have this kind of burden in my life. I do not have the patience, the inclination nor the skills to deal with the little beasts.

Also I think too many people have kids who should not because society brainwashes too many people especially women into "the white picket fence syndrome" regardless of their true feelings. It is as though having kids is the be and end of it all in life when for many people it turns out to be a horrendous mistake which they deeply regret.

I think being a parent is possibly the most important job in our society and thus should be entered into only with the most mature of attitude and with real aforethought and genuine desire. It is a job for life, one which is thankless and exhausting, mentally and physically and yet most people still seem to ignore the issue and jump feet first into a situation they are usually ill prepared for. We then end up with ill behaved, badly brought up, badly educated, horrible little monsters who in turn turn into selfsh, monstrous adults with the emotional intelligence of pond slime.

Parenting requires so many skills, so many tools in our emotional and intellectual toolbox as humans and yet any moron can do it and often does....

Kids to me should ALWAYS be wanted, loved and cherished, they should be respected and treated with dignity , kindness but also discipline and boundaries and line firmly drawn in the sand. A child is to be guided but not brainwashed, nurtured, encouraged and his/her potential developed as much as possible. This takes a lot of love, selflessness and devotion, intelligence, patience, and dedication. I am not the person to give this to a child.

Also I love my Husband and to me having a child would upset the apple cart and come between us. I love the relationship we have and do not want to change anything about it.

I have always also found it shocking that so many people who claim to love kids only want the products of their own loins to somehow perpetuate the family genetic line. To me a child is a child. ALL are equally worthy of love and respect and adoption would seem a far less wasteful and far more compassionate choice IMO for people who claim to really want children. To bring love to an unwanted child and give them stability and a home has got to be more important that whose womb they sprang out of. I see this sort of reasoning as trying to achieve some kind of immortality which is just as selfish and petty as the things I am accused of for not wanting to have children.

I admire people who adopt and even more foster parents more than anything. These are the unspoken heroes of our societies IMO.

And I have an absolute horror of being told " who will look after you when you are old". A child is not to be born to look after me in old age. It is not a servant. The purpose of a child's life is not to be end up as my carer. That has to be the most pathetic, horrible and saddest way to look at child rearing that I can think of. And so, so selfish. Almost monstrous.


I would make a terrible parent but unlike many people I am fully awre of that fact and decided this when I was a teenager. And I think that is better than having kids you will neglect, scream at, abuse, brainwash or even just ignore, and resent like so many parents I see.

[dubyanumberone]

Mod cut: Orphaned and off topic.

Truthfullyt, neighter of us want kids. We are both in our early to mid thirties and still have a ton of stuff we want to do both as a couple and individually. Kids will put a damper on those plans. We also both have sick parents. My GF has several years of college left and I have a high stress job... Lots of reasons not to have kids but the biggest is neither of us want to make the sacrifice and neither of us care (well we care but we don't let family dictate what we do) if our decision disappoints our family.

[PJSaturn]

Thread moved from Relationships to P&OC. It's become quite a controversial topic and does not fit into the romantic relationships category.

[Saritaschihuahua]

Originally Posted by smoky_topaz

Hi all,

I hear the term "childfree" and places likt where I come from it raises a few eyebrows. "Childless" implies wanting them but was unable to do so (medical reasons, etc.) Discuss

I am 35 and basically ovulate air Childless, childfree and happy to be. Have to admit my husband during our early courtship he wanted a child and I was adamant about not having any. He always had a lot of pets (5 dogs and 6 cats at some point no kidding ) My MIL has 12 dogs (most of them small) and my DH's aunt has a house full of cats so it must run in families.

Reasons:
Time and money: Being a parent takes up A LOT of both time and money. I've always had dreams of being rich one day.
Stress: Life is stressful in and of itself, but parenting sounds like stress 2.0 or something. Wow, from what Ihave heard, the sleepless nights, worry, money issues like college funds, etc.) I don't think I really have the patience for it all plus holding down a job or business and managing the affairs of a home. I think people who work hard all the time at their jobs , personally should remain childless. Don't want to have to listen to a baby's crying jags all night and all the dirty diapers, ick. School aged children I think can be a lot of fun, but there are mentoring programs for them I guess so you don't have to , like raise them. My house is nice and quiet, save for the barking of one of our dogs (or both)
Hard work and no money. I am hoping to start a small ebay business one day and want to focus on that. My hubby wants to be a computer game designer one day.

Our home is not empty and meaningless . We have all our lovely pets. They are:

Latte, asenior aged Chow/spaniel
Snickerdoodle, a small Chihuahua daachshund, she'll be 3 years old in April,
Buddy, a rambunctious (at times, he's trying to grow out of it, I promise) dsh cat 10 months old.
Cheech and Chong, two robo hamsters
Wilson, as African dward frog
Crabby, a hermit crab
Taylor, a betta fish
all my danios

and before i go, one more "kid" on the way...a black kitten we have named Cosmo and reserved until the mother cat finishes weaning her.

1) It costs a huge amt of money to raise kids;
2) I've watched people that wanted kids really really bad, end up scr_w_ng them up totally. A lot of people have kids "for show" - they want to fit in, show off, etc., and are actually unfit parents. There should be classes in childrearing - I think most people are clueless;
3) When marriages break up, women end up with the a) bulk of the childrearing work, b) the bulk of the child expenditures, c) a lot of deadbeat dads that are out having fun and not handling the creature they certainly enjoyed creating.